Streamlined Solopreneur: Tips to Help Solopreneurs Automate Their Business

Intro: Welcome to the Streamlined Solopreneur. A show for busy solopreneurs to help you improve your systems and processes so you can build a business while spending your time the way you want. I know you're busy, so let's get started.

Alright. I am here with Hollie Arnett, brand strategist, designer, coach, and the mastermind behind my rebrand. Hollie, how are you?

Hollie Arnett: I'm great. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Joe Casabona: Thanks for coming on the show. So I'm just gonna say right at the top here that we will be talking about, my personal rebrand that Hollie did in Part 2 of this interview. So stick around, and make sure you're subscribed to the Streamlined Solopreneur. But first, I wanna lay some groundwork.

So, Hollie, let's dive right into it. What is a personal brand? And then, like, kind of the follow-up question to that is, what's the difference between a personal brand and, like, a brand, brand?

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Great question and definitely good like groundwork.

So, a brand is something that we all already have. So, a brand is basically the reputation and the things that come to mind and things that people think of when they think of you or your business. So, you know, you can think of any company, any person, and things will subconsciously automatically come to mind for you whether that's like the colors of their brand or the topics they talk about or the experiences you've had in the past or like, new things they've been in the news for, you know, all these things come flooding in automatically. That is a brand. So we all have that.

So, a personal brand is when that is about you as a person. So, whether you're like an individual person, with like a traditional career, you'll have a personal brand, whether you're, a business owner or a solopreneur, you have a personal brand. But then you might if you have a business that's named after you or that's, has a, you know, its own business name, and is a separate entity, then that will have a brand too.

So, that's kind of what a brand is and sort of the difference.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. So kind of the main thing I'm hearing here, which is we'll get to, like, our inoculation question in a minute. But, like, people already have thoughts about us. Right? I mean, that's not no. Like, if someone has encountered your work, they're not gonna be a complete blank slate on you. They're going to have formed an opinion. And I don't wanna say the brand is that opinion, but, like, the brand could help form that opinion. Is that accurate?

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. So the brand is that opinion.

Joe Casabona: Alright.

Hollie Arnett: Branding is shaping what that opinion is. So we go through the branding process to decide like, okay, I want people when they do encounter me or my work, I want them to feel this way and I want them to understand this and I want it to appeal to this group of people. So that branding work shapes the brand.

Joe Casabona: Gotcha. So, like, Larry the cable guy, his brand is, like, being a, I'm using heavy quotes for those listening, like a dumb hick. Right? But, like, he's not really in real life. Right? Like, he's

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: That's just his brand. And he reinforces that brand by the way he dresses and talks on stage.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Okay. Cool. That makes sense. So when we talk about, like, that makes sense. Right? Like, we're posting online, and so we're forming, like, our personal brand. But when we think about companies, right, I think maybe this was just me or maybe this is a lot of people, but I think people associate brand with, like, logos and colors. Is that fair?

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Absolutely. Those are the key things that immediately come to mind for people is, like, logos, colors, and fonts. That's it.

Joe Casabona: Right. But it's like, it's more than that. Right? Like, you hire a graphic designer to create images for you, but, like, they may not be you know, I had a Design Pickle account for a while.

Hollie Arnett: Mhmm.

Joe Casabona: And the guy that was doing my work, he was great. Shout out, buddy. But, like, he wasn't building a brand for me. I was giving him direction on all of that, and he was just making images.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Exactly. So a brand and going through the branding process should ideally be actually a lot about the work before the design work. So we will talk about it probably in Part 2, but we go through what I call a brand strategy process where you want to figure out, okay, before I get to the design, how do I want my brand to come across? What is my audience? What is the personality of my brand? What do I want people to feel when they interact with it? Figuring out that stuff so that you can shape your brand and then you'll use visuals to make that happen. So the branding the visual part of it is only one part of it. There's so much more that goes into, like, building a brand like collaborations or content or, you know, all these different things that shape people's opinion of you and your business. So, yeah, the visual is only one small part of it. An important part of it. Smaller, smaller than people think.

Joe Casabona: Right. And, like, if I was doing this for myself, I probably would have picked, like, my favorite color, right, instead of, like, a color that properly communicates. Like, I don't know that I would have picked yellow, right, for I mean, a little spoiler alert, but also, like, my hat's yellow and my mic is yellow and my watch band is yellow. So, like, draw your own conclusions. I don't know that I would have picked yellow. Right? I would have very likely picked, like, navy blue and white because I like navy blue, and I'm a Yankee fan, and I generally use those colors for a lot of stuff. They're also it's easy to pair. Right? Like, you know, it's without you, I would have no idea how to use yellow in my graphics.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Exactly. And that's the thing is that that's why that part before the design part is so important because if we didn't do that, like, I would have no idea what colors to pick. And you like you said, you could have just picked colors that were your favorite. But we did the work before and we figured out, like, okay, I have the list in front of me, like, you wanted your brand to feel helpful and humorous and inviting and humble and honest and approachable and visually feel classic and modern and personal and positive. So with all of those in mind, that helps to then pick all the visual things like how do I design a logo that feels inviting and honest and how do I pick colors that feel positive and modern. And that's how you make those decisions rather than going in and going, oh, I don't know, I'm just gonna pick what color feels good. But then it's not gonna feel the right way or attract the right audience or all the things that you wanna achieve.

Joe Casabona: Right. And there is a lot of intentionality. Right? There's a reason why, like, a lot of, you know, let's say climate non for profits pick green or whatever.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Right? Like, there's a reason why, every, like, high-power businessman book is, like, red with white. Right? Like, there's a reason for that.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Exactly. Every part of visual branding has meaning. So, you know, the colors, typography is really powerful in like communicating meaning, you know, if you see Comic Sans, that's gonna immediately give you a different feeling than like Times New Roman. So, you can make those choices to say, okay, I want my brand actually to feel more Times New Roman, so that fits perfectly because it gives that kind of like, traditional really, you know, that kind of feeling versus if you picked Comic Sans, you're gonna get something completely different. So that's why you need to do the work before so that then you can make those decisions.

Joe Casabona: The well, say former web developer in me is dying because you picked those fonts, but, like, everybody knows those fonts, which is, I assume, why you picked them.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Exactly. I'm not saying use Comic Sans. I'm just saying it conveys a feeling, you know?

Joe Casabona: Yeah. It certainly does.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. That's great. And as I move into this next question, I think I really want the listeners to remember the word intentionality because that's what really this is all about. Right? And so, maybe I've just stolen the answer, but, like, I know that there are people out there saying, I mean, do I need a brand? Do I need branding? Right? Because, I mean, I think you said, like, we all kind of de facto have a brand. Right? People are forming an opinion about us. So, like, do I really need branding? Shrug? Yeah.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, in my opinion, yes. I think, like, you can not do it, but by not thinking about it and not doing it, you're leaving that opinion up to chance and up to whatever your brand currently is, right? But if that's not actually right, like if you're not attracting the right people or you're not getting the opportunities that you want or your name's not coming up in the right places or, you know, those sorts of things or people are having to come to your brand and having the wrong opinion or the wrong impression, then you need to do branding. And even if things aren't going wrong, right, it's important to do branding because you get to shape what your brand becomes.

And I think there are, yeah, two reasons why it's really important. One is that what I just kind of said is that you can choose how your brand is gonna appeal is gonna come across, how it's gonna appeal to people, who it's gonna appeal to, all of that so that you what everything else that you're doing is gonna be more effective. So, you know, the marketing you're doing, your website, all of that stuff is gonna be way more effective because you're gonna have this like awesome first impression, it's gonna appeal to the right people, all of those things.

And then secondly, it's a really practically helpful thing for you. So you've mentioned intentionality and I always talk about how branding helps you go from impulsive to intentional because I think a lot of people struggle with like making designs and deciding what to put on their website and trying to make content but you're just like picking random stuff in Canva and you're probably changing stuff all the time and it's quite impulsive rather than being intentional and knowing like okay, I've got my colors, I've got my fonts, I know what my brand voice should be, and how I should write things. I've got like taglines and stuff that then you're not having to be impulsive with those things. You just have a system and it's really easy to use and it keeps everything consistent going forward.

So I think those are kind of the two main reasons is the kind of shaping that impression that people have of you, which is so important, and then practically making your life so much easier so that you can focus on the content and the actual business that you're trying to run rather than impulsively creating stuff all the time.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. This is such a great point. Right? And, like, goes to the core mission of what I'm doing here with the Streamlined Solopreneur and my personal brand, which is to help people focus on the things that matter. Right? Like, can I tell you that I have three small kids? Anybody who listens to this and who has ever heard me talk knows that. The mornings where it's up to me to, like, do the lunch and the snacks and stuff like that, I'm, like, a little bit spent after the kids go to school. Right? Because kids are picky eaters, and you don't wanna give them the same thing every single day. And so in the morning, I'm just like, alright. What do we have today? What did I give them yesterday? What are we gonna do? And, like, those decisions, even though they have to be made, like, maybe I can make them the night before, but, they, like, lend to this decision fatigue that I have. And as a result, I might not be as effective at work. Right?

And so the same thing goes for if you're putting together a graphic. There's, like, a bajillion fonts out there. Right? There's a bazillion color. I mean, there's, like, a couple hundred thousand colors, out there. Right? And so, like, what do you do? What looks good? How do you even know? Like, think tinkering with that takes so much time. And as someone who just spent, like, an hour this morning making a YouTube thumbnail because I know how important that is, I can tell you that, like, if I didn't know, like, what font or colors I was gonna use, like, that would be even worse. Right? Like, so I can't reinforce what you've said enough. The fewer decisions you have to make with things like that, the better your time will be spent, and that's really important.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Absolutely. And it makes it easier if you wanna get someone else to help you too. So, you know, if you're going to hire a graphic designer or a copywriter or a web designer or you know, someone to help with YouTube, being able to say like, hey, here's my brand, here's the colors, here's the fonts, here's the voice, like all of those things makes it super easy for them to pick that up and do that, and it makes it sure that whoever's using it, it's gonna stay consistent. Whether you're doing it or someone on your team or contractor whoever, it's all gonna look and feel the same no matter what what they're doing.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. Which is super important. I think, like, I wanna there's a kind of this week's current event. So, like, by the time the show comes out, it'll be, like, old news, “But the Yankees, since 1973, have had a policy where their players have to be clean-shaven”. So no beard. Right? This was a tribute to, like, classic and traditional and excellence and, like, always looking good.

And they got rid of that policy this year. Because they learned that it was costing them free agents. Like players were choosing not to go to the Yankees because they wanted to keep their beard. And it was, like, kind of a thing. Like, yeah, like, people would come to the Yankees and they and they're they'd have their shave or people would leave the Yankees and then they debut with, like, a beard that they couldn't grow.

And so, you know, this is this is part of the Yankees brand. And now, like, what they're signaling is, hey. We're trying to be a little more modern. We're trying to be with the times. You still have to have a well-groomed beard. But we're we recognize that no beard is a very old policy. So I just think that's very interesting because it's like it's a big deal in the baseball space.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. It's also a reminder of like brands can and should evolve. I think something that people get tied up with especially when you're thinking about the difference between a personal brand and like a really corporate brand is that if you think about like McDonald's or Apple or some big corporation, they do and feel like they have to stay really consistent for a really long time and like nothing will change and, you know, I've got, on the shelf behind me like the, I think it's like the New York subway like guidelines, right? It's all going to stay the same for like decades probably. And so I think when we're looking at those examples of like corporate branding, it feels like we have to do the same, that we have to make a decision and it will never change or we have to keep it for like ten years or something.

But as solopreneurs, we are evolving and growing and changing and so, yes, like we want to have consistency, but it doesn't lock us in for life. I think that kind of scares people like oh my god I have to choose colors and I'm never gonna be able to change them or like I have to pick this style and I'm never gonna be able to change that. But as we grow, as we evolve, as we become, you know, better and more complex people, our brands can and should reflect that too. So it's okay to refresh or readjust or fully rebrand more often than, say, McDonald's is probably doing or, the New York subway system.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point. Right? I mean, I look at I look at, like, Pepsi's logo, you know, is, like, one that always shows up as, like, the Pepsi logo throughout the decades or whatever. Right? And it's like versus Coca-Cola, which I don't think has changed very much. Yeah. Whatever. And so it really is about how you are reflected. Right?

And the last thing I'll I'll chime in here with what with what you've done for me is, outside of the fonts and colors and logos and the fantastic monogram that I have on my water bottle, you also came up with words associated with my brand, and, like, the phrase, like, streamlined equals spacious. And so as I've gone and, again, we'll, like, really dig deeper into this in Part 2.

But, I've, spacious is a word that I've always kind of kept in the back of my mind now when I think about, what, messaging am I putting out there. How am I thinking about, what I'm communicating to people? Cause we wanna build space.

And, my friend Brian has been telling me that when, you know, when I do short-form videos or social content, I need to basically make the same video reframed over and over again. And, like, he points to this woman who makes these, like, grocery magnets, and it's, like, always the same. It's like, hey. Have you ever gone to the grocery store and then she, like, puts a magnet on her fridge? Click or crack. And, like, have you ever, like, seen the broccoli aisle? Clack. Right? And it's just, like, the whole thing is, like, a story, and it's like, by the way, you can buy these magnets.

And I was trying to figure out what that is for me. And over the weekend, I came up with the word friction. Right? Like like, I wanna reduce friction in your life. And I thought how perfect that to reduce the friction you need to create, like, you in the real world, you literally need to create space between the two items that are bumping up again, like rubbing up against each other and creating friction.

So I just thought that was a really, fun thing because, like, I thought friction and I thought this is perfect because, like, space means not a lot of friction in between things.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. So Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And just, yeah, a reiteration that the branding is so much more than the, just the visuals right? Like it's so much about branding basically is what you want to be known for and so for you it's like I want to be known as someone who helps you to create that spacious business life experience, and so repetition with everything in branding is so powerful in helping people remember and get to know and like trigger that. And then when they see you that they're like, oh, that's right, Joe. This is what Joe is all about. Or, you know, McDonald's is red and yellow, like I get out of seeing it 20,000,000 times.

But it's that's what helps it become kind of subconscious and then they remember you, then it's easier for them to come back to you, it's easier for them to refer people to you because they just, they know what you're all about. So, it's really powerful having like the wording and the visuals and all the like the content that you're doing to reinforce what you want people to know you for.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. It makes you recommendable, right? Like, this is what I tell people with their podcast, like, oh, my podcast is for everybody. Like, it shouldn't be. Right?

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Because, like, now you're basically saying, like, yeah. You can get sushi at Walmart. Like, don't do that. Or, like, yeah. You can get sushi at the gas station. Like, you don't do that. Right? Get sushi at the sushi joint. Right? You wanna be the sushi joint. You don't wanna be Walmart or the gas station.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Exactly.

Joe Casabona: Not that there's anything wrong with Walmart. I just wouldn't get sushi from a place that doesn't specialize in making sushi. This is what I'm saying.

Hollie Arnett: Exactly. Yeah. If you know, like, someone who's, you know, a solopreneur and they don't have that stuff clear, it is really hard to say, you know, someone says, well, why would I work with them or what do they do and you're like, I don't know, they kind of do a bunch of everything or like they can help you with all of these sorts of things. That's not gonna be the most compelling thing in the world, whereas if someone's like, oh, Joe does this, it will help you get that space that you need when you are finding friction. Boom. So easy to be like, yeah, this is what you need. This is how you can work with them. This is why you need to work with them. So, yeah. It's really important for those practical things as a business owner.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. And, again, just to reinforce that, like, one of the reasons I hired you is because around the time that you were starting to roll out Jay Clouse’ rebrand, right, for Creator Science and all that. I was talking to him, and he was basically like, so, like, what do you do? Like, I've been in the community for two years. And he's like, I don't really know how to recommend people to you. And I'm like, dang. That is a problem. Because, like…

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: I show up, but, like, you know, he tags me in WordPress posts because I have, like, you know, WordPress experience, and he tags me in podcast posts. And now it's, like, mostly automation stuff. And because I wanna create space in people's lives. And so I was like, I need to get clear on this. And, again, I won't tease this for too much longer, but, like, you're, like, onboarding process, like, helped me get really clear, I think.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. That's great.

Joe Casabona: So, I think we've convinced people. I will share one more story here, which is, like, years ago, I asked my friend's dad, a very close family friend. He was in advertising. It was during the Super Bowl, and Coca-Cola had one of their ads. And I was like, why is Coke advertising during the Super Bowl? Everybody knows who Coke is. Like, everybody knows what Coca-Cola is. And he's like, they want you to always think about them. Like, they want you to always be thinking about them. That's why they do the ads. It's not to, like, convert people to drink Coke. Like, so…

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Yeah. You wanna be branding is you know, talked about how it's about shaping, but it's also about being top of mind all the time and so, you know, when somebody does think automation space, they're like Joe, because I just saw Joe like two minutes ago and he reminded me, on social media or his website or whatever, it's about being top of mind so people do remember you, and you come to mind automatically.

And I think like with Coke and you know, what Jay was talking to you about as well, It's also a reminder that we always with branding wanna be thinking about the future. I think sometimes people think like, oh, I need to think about what my brand is right now and like, you know, few people were taking you in WordPress things or all these other things and you could keep doing that. But if that's not what you want in the future, then you don't wanna keep doing that and you don't wanna build your brand around that, like same with your audience, you know, you might have few different people in your audience right now, but if those people are not the audience you want tomorrow, then you don't want to talk to them, you know.

What I always say is that the brand you build today will impact the business you have tomorrow. So you want to build it for your goals for the future. So Coke is probably doing the same, you know. Like they've had brand in the past, they've got a brand currently, but they're also trying to think like, what do we want people to be thinking about Coke tomorrow, and what audience do we wanna reach tomorrow? So that's a good reminder also.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. This is such a great point, and I think it kind of, really lends itself to the implementation part. Right? How do I do this? Because it could feel scary. Right?

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Like I don't, I was really hesitant to fully let go of the WordPress stuff because I was like, this is where all my money's coming from right now. Like, what if I cut it off and then I have no money? Right? But I think it really that's what led to people being like, how do I recommend you? Right? You talk about WordPress and podcasts and automation, and now what do you do, really?

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: So assuming we've convinced our listeners that having strong branding, having a strong personal brand is important, especially maybe for solopreneurs, right?

Hollie Arnett: Mhmm.

Joe Casabona: How do they do it? How do they get started?

Hollie Arnett: Yeah, great question. So, in my mind, there are three kind of main phases in building a brand. There's the brand strategy phase, then there's the brand visuals phase, and then there's like growing your brand and, marketing it and all that sort of thing.

So, phase one is the brand strategy and that's where you really want to start. I think hopefully we've also convinced you that that's really important, that it's really tempting to jump straight into the design, but you're just going to waste time with design that doesn't work if you do that.

So, you wanna start with the brand strategy, and there are a lot of questions that you could ask, but I think the main question is, what do I wanna be known for? If you only answer one question, I'd answer that. So if it's, you know, for you like automation or I wanna be known for, I don't know, helping people write books, like, what is it that you wanna be known for and how can you build a brand around that. And think also, like, in terms of what you wanna be known for, like, how do you want people to feel? How do you want to be known personally? You know, like, do you want to be a bubbly, like known as really bubbly and helpful or quite like serious and intellectual or like how do you want people to feel and to know you as?

And then once you have some thoughts around it, I would just like brain dump it all at least. Then you can kind of move on to the visuals and go, okay. If I wanna feel, if I want people to know me for this thing and I want to feel this certain way, how can I then do that visually? So that's where I'd start.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. Man, I mean, what do I wanna be known for is such a like, that itself could be a powerful question. Right? Because it's and, like, really tell me if you agree with this or not.

Hollie Arnett: Mhmm.

Joe Casabona: Try not to have too many commas in that sentence. Right?

Hollie Arnett: Yes. Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Because, like, I, you know, I could be like, I wanna be known for web development and podcasting and automation. But…

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: I wanna be known. And even that is, like, probably, like, feature level implementation level. Right? I wanna be known as the guy who helps busy solopreneur parents spend time with their family. Like, that's what I want.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Right? I wanna be the guy who helps, parents build space in their life, in their lives.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Exactly. It's yeah. Like, you know, I'm a multi-passionate, multi-hyphenate person. If I listed every single thing that I do, it would be a mile long. But it's more about like, yeah, the difference that you make or the transformation you make or how you help people and what, why they would wanna buy, you know, work with you or buy from you. So, yeah, what do you wanna be known for in that sense is really, really important.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. And I mean, if we look at, like, big brands, right, Coca-Cola doesn't say they wanna be known for soft drinks. Right?

Hollie Arnett: Like Yeah.

Joe Casabona: They wanna they wanna be known for, like, spending good time with your family and friends or, like, whatever, you know, whatever it is. Right? They wanna be known for, like, polar bears or whatever their Christmas.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Ads are.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Exactly.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. So I think it's, like, answer that the five whys probably help you there a lot. Right? Like, I wanna be known for automation. Why? So that solopreneurs can automate more. Why? So that they can spend time on the right parts of their business so that they can actually not be chained to their desk because they started a business to not be chained to their desk probably.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And that's we kinda did that in our, like, brand strategy processes asking like, what impact do you want to have? And I often break that down into like, what's the impact do you want to have on your clients or customers, on your industry and or on the world, right? So, you might do all of those or you might just have one.

But I think that's a really great question is like, yeah, what impact do you want to have? How do you want to impact your clients or customers? Or how do you want to impact your industry? Or how do you want to impact the world? And I think people often think, oh, I'm not changing the world, but you are probably indirectly, you know, might not be running a charity or something, but like, for me, my vision, the impact I want to have is to make the world a more creative place because I value and see so much power and creativity and I want more of that. And so how I can do that is by helping people with their brand so that they get to create more and it like helps It impacts the world in a small, in my small way, you know?

Joe Casabona: Yeah. Right. And I'll just tag on to that and say, like, I know how important, like like, showing up for your kids are, like, being available for your kids. And if I can help parents show up for their kids, like, their kids are gonna have a better childhood, and that that that can impact the world. Right?

Hollie Arnett: Like Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Casabona: The difference between a great childhood and a crappy childhood could change the trajectory of a kid's life.

So, man, I almost got, like, emotional there for a minute. I'm good, though. I'm cool. I only, I'm only allowed to cry on this podcast, like, once a month. So, we're getting dangerously close to, I think, the big question for me with my personal brand. But before we get there, I do wanna ask because, like, you know, you did work for Jay Clouse’, like, loved, I'll tell you, like, that's the thing that may I we had worked together previously, but, like…

Hollie Arnett: Mhmm.

Joe Casabona: Or, like, I knew about your role, but, like, that made me wanna hire you. Like, I loved the vibe.

Hollie Arnett: Thank you.

Joe Casabona: But then you also worked with, like, Andrew Connell. Right? And that was a brand brand. Right? And for me, you did a personal brand, and we'll get to why in a little bit. But, like, how does one know if they should focus on a personal brand or a brand brand? Is there, like, a real term for that? I just keep saying brand, brand.

Hollie Arnett: I think that's fine. It's just a business brand or a, yeah.

Joe Casabona: Business brand. Yeah.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's there's no like one size fits all, like a rule, but I think generally it's like, we made we've talked about what do you want to be known for, it's like do you want to be known for you or for a business and for something that grows beyond that goes beyond you. So, I think if you're thinking of like selling your business in the future or having a team that, you know, would be underneath or like those sorts of things would impact potentially deciding to have a business.

Whereas a personal brand is like, no, I want people to know me, and, you know, value me for my services or my expertise or whatever it is. I think often if you are providing services and it's just you, it makes a lot of sense for it to be a personal brand because people are connecting with you, right? And they're gonna say like, oh, work with Joe, rather than like work with x business, so that usually makes a lot of sense, whereas if you're selling like more, products or like experiences or those sorts of things and maybe there's more people involved, or, yeah, like I said, like a future in where you might sell it or something like that, then that's when a business could be a better option.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. I like that. And I think probably one of the crucial things I shared with you was a story that my friend, asked me, like, I was talking through my business and he goes, oh, how would you sell that? And I was like, I would never I'm, like, so intertwined. Like…

Hollie Arnett: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: I could never sell a coaching. And, this is not shade because I do coaching for Justin Moore under, like, the Wizards Guild and Creator Wizard brand. But, like, that's also a brand. Right? Like, that's his brand. I wouldn't be able to do that. Like, I wouldn't be able to say, like, get podcast coaching and then it not be me. Right? Just because, like, the way I talk and the way I present all of this information is I'd have a hard I would have a hard time making that switch.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. Exactly. And I think that's where there's kind of that difference that I mentioned. Like, if you're thinking, okay, in the future, I'm gonna have, like, other coaches and I'm gonna have other, you know, people involved. So if you do come and work with me, you're not necessarily going to be working with me, you might have another coach or you might have like another person delivering the service, then a business name and a business brand make a lot of sense.

But if you're like, no, people are coming and they're gonna work with Joe or they're gonna work with Hollie and that's it's always gonna be like that, and they're gonna recommend me personally. They're gonna say, go work with Joe, then that's probably where a personal brand makes the most sense.

And I think also often, just as a side note, that if you are the person running a business brand, you might also have a personal brand kind of tied together.

Hollie Arnett: So, you know, we've used Jay and Justin as examples where they both have businesses that have their own brands, but they have personal brands and people know them as, like, the founder of that business, so they kinda influence each other. You know, they're very connected still.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. That's a really good point. Right? I think Nathan Barry probably also does this effectively. Like, kit is very much a separate thing from Nathan's personal brand. Or, like, I don't know. Cape Burgoyne has, like, why we buy. I don't I that's probably that's like news I would say that it's like a newsletter, though. Right?

So it's like, as long as you're clear about who you're talking to, I think, like, you and you're intentional. Right? That's the other thing that we kinda talked about. Right? I mean, I think part of the reason that we went with a personal brand for me is because I was like, what should I name podcast work? Like, because I hired you. Let's get into this now. Right? Let's do your closing thought on the general conversation and then we'll get into, like, how my personal brand came about.

Hollie Arnett: Yeah. I was just gonna add that, like, whatever you decide, whether it's a personal brand, a business brand, or both, it just has to be clear. Like, you know, whether you're yeah. Caitlin with a newsletter or you're, Nathan Barry, but you are the CEO of Kit, like, that just has to be clear with yourself. You have to understand it and be clear on that and then your audience needs to understand like, hi, I'm Hollie and I'm the founder of Maker and Moxie. Like that just has to be clear whatever you decide. So, either is a good option. It just has to make sense to you and to your audience.

Joe Casabona: Alright. I hope you enjoyed Part 1 of this interview with Hollie Arnett. I hope that you got as much from the episode as I did when I first met with her. It really changed the trajectory of my business, which is what we're going to talk about in Part 2 as we dig into Hollie and my work together, (really mostly Hollie's work, on my personal rebrand). So stick around for that. It's going to be the next episode, which will show up in your feed soon.

But if you want to send feedback, you can head over to [streamlinedfeedback.com]. All of the links that we mentioned will be in the description for this episode below.

And until next time, I hope you find space this week. Thanks.