Joe Casabona: Today’s episode is a little different. Sara Loretta and I met through Jay Clouse’s Creative Companion Club. I mentioned I was offering free podcast coaching for episodes of this show. And she pitched me coming on to talk about podcast guesting. While I thought we were going to talk about her advice for being a good guest, what we ended up doing was having a great conversation about our experiences. But don’t worry. It all gets tied together at the end. Because we’re constantly told that online business owners need to be on brand. But the truth is being open, and showing the personal side establishes the like and trust factors. And ultimately, that is how you get to be a good podcast guest.
Hey, everybody. And welcome to Episode 281 of How I Built It. Another reason this episode is a little bit different is because while I don’t generally swear in my online properties, Sara does. And I didn’t feel it was right to center or edit those swear words out if we’re talking about being open and personal.
So this episode is the first ever to get the explicit warning. If you are listening with kids, if you usually listen with your kids, just know that there’s some potty mouth in it. But that’s perfectly okay.
If you want to get an even longer version of this episode, you can… it’s also ad-free. You can sign up over at [howibuilt.it/281]. You can do that for just $50 a year. That’s less than $5 a month and you’ll get ad-free extended episodes of this and every episode of the show, access to the live stream archives where I’m building in public, as well as bonus content. Again, that’s [howibuilt.it/281]. Less than $5 a month, which is like how much I pay for an iced coffee. All the show notes will also be over there too.
This episode is brought to you by TextExpander, Nexcess, and Learndash. You’ll learn about them later on in the show. But for now, let’s get to the intro and then the interview.
Hey, everybody. And welcome to How I Built It. The podcast that helps small business owners create engaging content that drives sales. Each week, I talk about how you can build good content faster to increase revenue and establish yourself as an authority. I’m your host, Joe Casabona. Now, let’s get to it.
Hey, everybody. I am here with Sara Loretta. She is the CEO and Chief Notion Officer at [99saintclaire]. You will get that reference if you’re a member of the creator crew. We had a great, great pre-show. So you can sign up over at [joincreatorcrew.com] for just $50 bucks a year. That’s less than $5 a month, which is less than the last coffee I paid for. So, I mean, you should do it. It’s great.
We’re gonna be talking about how to be a great podcast guest. And Sara has definitely proved her credentials in the pre-show already.
So, Sara, how are you today?
Sara Loretta: Man, I’m doing F****** awesome. So just preface this show, you all. I have a sailor’s mouth and it’s fine.
Joe Casabona: I try to edit out the swear words. This is getting the explicit rating though. So everybody will…
Sara Loretta: Yeah. No, I’m doing great. I’m doing great. It’s hot. I’m in Austin and it’s 105 degrees today. So I’m a little bakey but it’s fine.
Joe Casabona: Is it like a dry heat there? I hear in Texas it’s a dry heat.
Sara Loretta: Yeah. It’s a dry heat. But it’s just hot. I mean, it’s like you wake up in sweat and you go to sleep and you sweat. I’ve been here 10 years and I still…I feel like every summer it just gets worse. And triple digits, usually we don’t hit triple digits until August. We have like a three-week period. And the fact that it’s June 8th and its triple digits, it’s a little scary.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. It’s been like up here, I’m in the North East and it was like very cold until it wasn’t like it was like 48 until it was like 90. And I’m like, what is happening? Like what is happening right now?
Sara Loretta: It’s said global warming you all. You know, recycle.
Joe Casabona: Eat the impossible meat. Look. As a meat lover, you can’t tell unless you eat them side by side. It’s fine. Just do it.
Sara Loretta: Eat some fish.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Exactly. That’s better for you anyway. Yeah. There’s your PSA from Sara and Joe.
So we got connected through Jay Clouse’s Creative Companion Club. Jay was on Episode 270. And then right after that, I decided to join his membership. So it was a great sales call for him. And I basically posted that I was looking for potential live coaching guests, which 280, the one right before this was with Scott Cowan and we did a coaching call.
But Sara pitched a different idea, which I loved: How to be a good podcast guest? Because when you go on a podcast, you wanna make the most of it, right? It’s a great way to get in front of somebody else’s audience.
As we record this, it was a big relaunch, right? But you’re kind of changing niches or niches or whatever.
Sara Loretta: Yeah. So I owned a design agency. So same business name. If you Google 99 Saint Claire, it will all come up. But I had my design agency for about 4.5 years. But halfway through, I really started to notice that most of my design clients, we were actually spending a lot of time on business development and I was setting people’s prices and procedures.
And then I had somebody from Dublin who ended up being a client of mine that had seen one of my YouTube videos say, “Can you please build a Notion workspace for me?” She was another designer. And I said, “Absolutely not.” I wish I was lying when I say she emailed me eight times. And finally, on the eighth time, I was like, you know what? Fine. But if it’s trash like don’t get mad at me like I’ve never done project management for other people. And in that conversation, I was like, “Hey. If you’re asking for this, chances are other people are asking for it.” And so we came up with this agreement to turn it into templates, which is now my signature thing that people know me for which is Notion for designers.
It’s a 40-plus template bundle to a full operating system with contracts and proposals, project management space, and client management space for Notion, specifically for brand and web designers. And since then, that was early 2021, I’m now a certified Notion consultant. I was recently named the 40th in the world, and I’ve completely shifted my business into Notion consulting and small team development.
So I specialize in teams of 15 or fewer, and we focus more on Digital Workflow. So not just having 20 pieces of tech in your stack, but how do they all work together? And do they actually help you make more money and run your business? For me, growth is great but you can’t get to a growth phase if you don’t have the foundation set.
And that’s really where I come in is people have kind of been steering in their hamster wheel for a while and something’s just not clicking.
So I’ll audit processes and help them really find their gaps so they can maximize the client experience and minimize human error on things that can be optimized.
So we relaunched literally 3 days ago. And I spent the last 9 weeks up all night reworking this relaunch. We have a ton of things launching over the next 2 months.
And it’s really exciting to kind of tap back in because I actually started my career first in [Inaudible 7:45.03] I taught Science and Robotics, and all of those things. And then I shifted to a nonprofit and actually built their compliance department and did data management and helped them save tens of thousands, actually, hundreds of thousands of dollars with the city and the state. Because we didn’t even have databases or an internal system. And I single handly built that with our IT guy.
So it’s really cool to finally be full circle because I love my job there. I just hated the nonprofit politics. So it’s been really fun to kind of come full circle like Lauren Graham says and Gilmore girls (if you all are gillies) But, yeah. So that’s what I do. And I have a YouTube channel, and I still sell Notion for designers, and I do Notion builds, and hang out online.
Joe Casabona: That’s amazing. So, first of all, I’ll just say like a little bit of history for you is this show started as talking to mostly WordPress developers and designers, and freelancers. And so what’s the link to the templates? I’ll put it in the show notes over at [howibuilt.it/281]. But if you want to state it, I’m sure a lot of listeners will enjoy that.
Sara Loretta: Yeah. So if you just go to my gumroad, it’s just [thesaraloretta]. That’s where you can find me personally everywhere. Just [thesaraloretta.gumroad.com].
And I not only have larger templates, but I actually have a ton of free Notion content. Specifically, this is me tapping back into my teacher self like I love teaching, and hated when kids made me cry. But that’s a whole another story.
But I actually have a Notion basics course on my gumroad account. It is free. It will always be free. It’s about a 2-hour walkthrough from everything. From what account you should pick through how to use databases and create templates.
And then actually it ends with a building exercise where you’ll build alongside of me. And it is the best course out there for you to decide if Notion’s for you or not. And I’ve never seen anything like it. That’s me tapping into my ego a little bit, but I will say it is incredible.
So if you’re thinking about Notion and you’re not really sure, by the end of that course, you should be able to be like, F*** yeah. Here I go. I’m ready to dive in. Or like, Nope. Going back to a box software. I’m just gonna stick with a sauna and call it a day.
Joe Casabona: I can vouch for this. I’ve started taking it because I have been doing a dance where I’ve been thinking about moving to Notion. Maybe from Airtable, like a lot of times, because Airtable is very cost prohibitive if it’s more than just you like my VA accesses like two tables in Airtable, and I’m paying as much for her as I am for me.
Sara Loretta: Maybe we need to get you on Notion.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. So like Notion will save me like $400 a year, which is nice.
Sara Loretta: It really pulls a lot of…I mean like for my team, we’re a team of five and we don’t even use Slack anymore. We solely use Notion. There’s a lot of potentials but it’s also really overwhelming. And that’s why I wanted to release this course because I would get so many clients on discovery calls that would be like, “Oh! You know, everyone keeps telling me I need to be on Notion but I don’t know what it is.” And it’s like, “Well, first of all, why are you on this call if you didn’t even do your research?” But two, like, “I’m happy to build this for you.” But like any other service, if you all are listening in your service-based business like you can only take their success so far, and then it’s up to the client to continue that. And so I make it very clear with people I work with like, “I’m happy to set this up, happy to support you. But if you don’t implement the way I’m teaching you or actually try to implement positively, then like I can’t do anything about that.”
And that’s, I think one thing that’s really held me above water over the last five years is like, I can only do so much for you. So…
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Joe Casabona: So I should probably have you back on the show at a different time to talk about Notion. But I think that what we’ve demonstrated here because of my cunning planning is you’ve established your authority in an area, which I think is really important for being a good podcast guest, right?
So I know that in Jay’s community, you asked about this, right? You’ve been getting some pitches for going on a podcast and you weren’t quite sure what should you talk about? Who should be proposing? So, why don’t you talk a little bit about that? How do you approach going on someone’s podcast?
Sara Loretta: Sure. So I have never pitched anyone to be on someone’s show. I mean, for you I was like, “Hey, here’s an idea because we had talked about something that I had posted.”
But the podcast I’ve been on, either they’ve been friends, friends of friends, you know, super kind of starter. I’ve been more times than I can count the first guest on people’s podcasts. And so for me, in any element of my life, I never wanna show up subpar. I have this like inherent deep fear that I’m going to disappoint anyone in everyone. And so I’m always trying to show up 120% at all times.
And especially knowing when people come to me, they’re like, you know, we wanna start having guests. We’d love for you to be the first one. I kind of go through this “Oh, S***!” moment because I’m at a point in my life where I’m almost 30, I’ve had several different careers that are so much fun to talk about. I could spend an entire episode just on each phase of my life and I never know how to really tie it all together. Especially when you add in like childhood stuff and how I got to where I am today.
And then a lot of pitches that come in are people that are like, “Oh! So and so…said you should be on my podcast.” This was the recent one that we were chatting about. Random person, never heard of their podcast. But I know very much who they referred. I was referred to by…and, you know, it was very general. It was like, “Hey, so and so…said, you’d be great on my podcast. Would love for you to join.” “Okay. Where’s your link? What do you want me to talk about?” I could talk about literally 80 things, right? We could have the argument about how I made six figures solely using Canva and procreate. We could talk about the Notion. We could talk about my YouTube channel. We could talk about college, like whatever you wanna talk about. And it was interesting because the person that had referred me, I love them. They’re in Australia. Great! They bought the first course I ever launched. I love this individual. So I was like, “F*** yeah! I’m happy to do it.”
And then after I said, “Yes” that’s when I got all the details of what we should talk about, and here’s the pitch, and here are the expectations of the show. And I feel like I’m at a place where I really would like to hone in my CEO story, and my founder brand, and start using podcasts to actually talk about my expertise.
But I don’t know if I’m at a place yet where I could go and pitch. And so I wanna use this as a stepping stone to be able to showcase like you just built that guest landing page on your website. And I think it’s F****** beautiful.
And I’m like, I wanna be able to have something like that on my personal site so I can start getting booked on panels. Like my biggest goal, how do I know that I’ve made it? I wanna be on a crate and cultivate panel. That is my dream.
I started my business because of Jaclyn Johnson like I would die if I could be on her panel. But it’s like, how do we get there? Right. And this, I feel like is a really important stepping stone.
Long story short, that is really how it is. And I feel like a lot of people too that have pitched me because they kind of know of me because other people are referring. They don’t come to me with specifics. But it also doesn’t seem like they’ve done their research past whatever that person has told them.
And usually, the episodes end up being a lot of shock of “Holy S***!” Didn’t know that your dad’s in prison? And you’ve been on your own since you were 17” like there are a lot of shocks and I feel like it takes away from what I’m there to educate on. And I’m trying to figure out how to tell that story and pull those heartstrings without it being like, ”Oh my God! I can’t believe you went through that.” And it’s just like, “Yeah. I did. Move on.”
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Don’t have like the emotional breakdown here on the show. Right?
Sara Loretta: Exactly. It’s like if I’m here to talk about business, like happy to talk about my personal life. But if you find me anywhere online, I don’t talk about my personal life. That’s not something that I harp on.
I’ve written several articles about being one in 28 kids in America with a parent incarcerated. But I don’t put that in my everyday content. So if you’re asking me to be on a business podcast, don’t spend the first 20 minutes talking about my childhood and the trauma I went through, you know?
And so that’s kind of where I’m at is how do I kind of come into somebody’s show and really lead the charge. And also like, be intentional about what the audience wants too, right? Because if you have a podcast, like a general business podcast, yes, clearly the audience is there. They want a business. But what are they asking for that you are then coming to me and I can provide that value? And that’s I think something that I haven’t really figured out a lot of times that I’ve been a guest or collaborated with online in general.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I think that’s a really good point. And this is really important if you’re listening to this and you have a podcast, preparation is the host’s duty. It’s the host’s job to get the good stories, the directed, like pointed stories from the guest, right?
So I’ve been on podcasts where the hosts were like, “Come up with 5 questions you want me to ask” And I was like, “You do that. I don’t know anything about your audience. Am I even a good fit? Or are you just having me for funsies?” right. Like as the host, right? You need to do a little bit of due diligence, right? And I’ll say, Andrew Warner’s book: Stop Asking Questions is really good.
If you are at a phase where you’re just kinda like reaching out to people who seem to have a lot of Twitter followers or whatever, that’s not the way to do it.
What you do is you look at the person’s homepage or their Twitter profile, and you look at what they’re talking about, and you say, “Okay. Yes, this serves my audience.” You should have a why for your podcast and your podcast should solve someone’s problem. And every guest should help solve the problem that you’re aiming to solve, right?
So, and you know what else helps, right? Like, I didn’t know before you got on Riverside about your dad. But you mentioned it in our pre-show interview so that when you drop it on the recording, I know that right? Like, so that’s the other thing. And that’s something I started doing recently is the pre-show interview. It lets us warm up a little bit. I mean, you and I seem like we’ve been friends for a million years.
Sara Loretta: Oh! We could chop it up for days.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Exactly.
But sometimes that’s not the case, you know. There’s a little like, “Oh! ! What’s your deal? Do you lay? Why are you here?” So the pre-show interview helps. And then you can kind of iron out the details as well.
Sara Loretta: I will say the best podcast experience as a guest I’ve had was actually the Why We Succeed podcast. I think I was also the first guest on that one. It’s by Jay Emmanuel. And he…when I tell you, his pre-show etiquette was everything. We got on a call a week before. We went through all the questions he was gonna ask. He gave me the opportunity to like to tailor the questions or get rid of some questions, we tested audio, and we did a bunch of stuff. And then we got on. I think it was like three or four days later, and actually did the full recording. And I thoroughly enjoyed that.
And one thing that I liked about his post-show is he actually cuts specific pieces of content out, which all of the other shows I’ve been on don’t do that. And so it’s been really hard to pitch or like share, “Hey, I’ve been a guest on this…” The production value I feel like on a lot of starter shows just aren’t there, which makes it hard for me to then turn around and be like, “Yes. I wanna promote this with Why We Succeed, Jay’s podcast.”
It was so good because he cut an entire piece about me talking about client experience. And that is my number one like hard principle is you put the client at the top experience you can at all times. And it was really cool because I could turn that into my own content.
Joe Casabona: So when you say cut, you mean he like clipped a part of the interview?
Sara Loretta: Yeah. Clip. Sorry. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I say cut, I usually mean like remove it from the interview.
Sara Loretta: Oh! Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Like a clip. He edited a clip of it, which was really cool, and spent like a week, like every day he released a piece of it. And then at the end, it was the whole thing that he had released for. It was a cool marketing structure. But yeah.
And then I was on a podcast, a Notion podcast that it wasn’t even edited. And so there was like one answer I was like, “Oh! Can I like re-answer this?” And that was actually in the episode, which was really awkward. Like it hadn’t been cut out. The audio wasn’t good. And so it’s hard for me because I mean, in our pre-show I sat here and I was like, how’s the game? Is the microphone good? Like, am I okay? And I spend so much time because I come from video and audio. And it’s hard being on shows that part isn’t reciprocating. Like the fact that you literally made me click a box on the Calendly invite, that was like, do you have headphones? Like, yeah. You probably should have headphones. You know?
Joe Casabona: I appreciate that. And like, absolutely true. I get it. Like, I know a lot of people who I asked on Twitter, right? Like how do you edit your podcast? And I’ve gotten a lot of like, “Oh! You know, we just like live stream it and then like, release that.” And I’m like, “Okay!” But like, do you care? Like, if you don’t care then fine, right?
But like, I make it very clear. I don’t think I made it clear to you folks. We had a very jaunty pre-show like, I’m just like, it was like really fun, but I skipped some important business. But like, I make it clear to my guests most of the time that this is not live, and if you mess up, let me know. I’ll clap my hands and we’ll create an edit point.
Sara Loretta: I actually think that was on your prep page. Because I did read that. Believe it or not. I did read that.
Joe Casabona: I appreciate that. Yeah. Perfect. Right. I forgot that I have that on the guest notes. As the host, I try to make it as clear as possible. Now, I usually only do it if it’s requested of me is send the questions ahead of time. And that’s like a time management thing for me.
One of the reasons I joined the Creative Companion Club is to focus my time and energy on podcasting more because like I like WordPress and I teach courses here. And I do…But I want to just focus on podcasting and this podcast and making it the best it could be.
Sara Loretta: And I think that’s similar though to a guest, right? Because I was an only child. Anytime I can talk, baby. Am I getting it out? And so I can be very longwinded, baby. Listen.
No. But I can be very, very longwinded. And so there’s sometimes, especially again, like going back to like pulling the hard strings, telling the story and like moving on that sometimes I’ll be like, “Oh my God!” I feel like I’ve been talking for like five F****** minutes and no one’s interrupting me. And it’s like, “Okay! This is either really good!” Or I am not great at telling my story.
And so people don’t really know how to interrupt me and end on the right note, right? That comes with just experience. And that’s why we were kind of talking in the pre-show is I’m kind of glad that a lot of the shows I’ve been on, there’s not a lot of things to lose, right? Like being on it like that gives you your time to practice. But I think I’ve been on like eight shows. And I actually think, I prefer to have the questions ahead of time. Just general. Right? It doesn’t have to be like the exact like we have to follow it. But just so I can kind of tailor my mind to be like, Okay! He wants to ask me 25 questions in a 30-minute recording like I gotta keep it short, sweet to the point.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Absolutely. That’s a really good point.
And you mentioned storytelling, which is something that, again, we kind of mentioned here in the pre-show. Do you have some stories like locked and loaded that you tell? Or are there ones that are like example: I did a podcast interview for somebody else’s podcast today where I told a very well-rehearsed story about my first Web design client, right? Like if anybody has listened to me on every podcast I’ve been to, they could tell it along with me, right? It’s like the same Cadence.
So do you have stories like that? Like locked and loaded? Or…
Sara Loretta: Not, usually. It depends again on the question. Right?
So first client experience, I talk a lot about how I became an entrepreneur. So for those who don’t know me that are listening, I started freelancing kind of half-heartedly because I couldn’t find a new job. I had been in the nonprofit space for, I think eight years and could not find another job. I actually…the last interview I ever went on, I interviewed at Trello six times, and then they ghosted me.
And so I ended up joining a freelance Facebook group and somebody was like, “Oh! I need help with my website.” And I was like, “Well, I’ve had a website for a while. Like happy to help you.” That was November, 2018.
And then in March 2019, I went to the… like I had just like kind of tapped into things at that point. Like I really hadn’t done stuff. Ended up going to the Create and Cultivate South by Southwest free conference, which for those of you who know Create and Cultivate, Jaclyn charges like two grand a ticket for her stuff. She does a free one in the South by, it’s insane. Went to that event, and sat behind Matthew McConaughey’s Mom, went home that night, and started my business. And within three months, I had 40 clients. Like I wish I was lying. It was insane.
And then I quit my day job within six months. And I was so miserable. Like the amount of bullying, I went through at that job. I was the only one left from when I got hired 7 years prior. So I was the only person left standing by a 3-year gap. And people were not happy that I was still there because I was very vocal of like, there’s no way for me to move up. Like I was running three departments on my own. I sat at the front desk. I never made more than 40 grand there. And so when I started making more money in freelancing than I did in my day job, I made that s*** as clear as day.
I was like, I don’t need to be here. Like you all treat me like there was a director on that team where I literally had a calendar counting the days he didn’t talk to me. I was the only one not ever invited through his door into his office when we moved offices, it was rough. I came home crying every single day and I’m an INTJ to the core. I do not cry. I am not emotional. That place broke me.
And so I ended up (this is how petty I am) most of my first-ever clients were actually our partners of that nonprofit. I would go do a video for them. I would do social media. So I was like, (Well, if they’re valuing me, but this place isn’t like, f*** them.) And so I quit my day job and I’d been freelancing ever since. So I tell that story a lot because it’s like, holy s*** like, whoa! You know?
And then usually the story that a lot of people like to hear is about my dad going to prison when I was 15, he’s still there. He’s got about seven years left to go, no contact. I talk a lot about my brand and hip hop and the nonprofit I worked for really was heavily focused on adult workforce education and re-entry. And I talk a lot about how those individuals that came through our program taught me more about my parent being incarcerated than I could ever learn online.
I grew up Catholic. But when my dad went to prison it was literally another Tuesday. It was never talked to. Didn’t get sent to therapy, like anything. And full transparency, I’m the reason he’s there.
I grew up in a very abusive household and I came out about it when I was 15. And so because I have no contact and things like that, I really just relied on people that were around me that had those experiences to learn about it. And very specifically hip hop. I mean, I attribute everything I know to culture and inner-city problems so much to the rap that I grew up listening to. It influenced me so much that I wrote my thesis on how rappers actually are inner-city historians, and how the mass media doesn’t cover inner-city history. Because it had just, I mean, broke me. I mean, there are albums and I had a paper published in college about Killa KyLeon who is a rapper out of Houston. He’s a little bit older. He’s kind of the early two thousand generations. And he wrote an entire album called Lorraine Motel that’s basically about his view that the black dream died when MLK was assassinated. And I’ve never cried more listening. I literally have like chills and I hate saying that I think that’s such a cliche thing to say. But I literally have chills like talking about this because that album changed my life. And it was so cool because I got to write this paper and I presented it to him at a show and it was like the dopest thing I’ve ever done. And then like Chase Hirano retweeted it. [Inaudible 29:15.70] got a hold of it. Like it was insane.
So I talk about that and like how it’s really helped shift me to go into impact work. And that’s primarily who I still work with our nonprofit people in the LGBTQ space. People who are of color. I don’t work usually with white people like, I’m just gonna say that. Like, I work with museums and nonprofits because I care so much about the underdog. Because for a long time, I wasn’t okay saying that I was the underdog. I hate being called a victim. Just a trigger to say this, but I am a sexual assault victim. I’m a domestic violence victim. And so for me, like I hated, hated viscerally, hated saying that I was a survivor, that I was a victim.
But what I’ve learned from all of these individuals who’ve really shaped me over the last 18 years is just how important it is to keep going and really create the life that you want no matter the situation you were born into. And really reshape your message about who you wanna be, and how you wanna live in this world.
And I think that what’s most important to me is giving more than what I’m receiving. And making sure that I’m kind and I’m thoughtful and I’m humble.
And maybe I crack a joke here or there, but at the end of the day, like, you know, if I can help somebody even for five minutes like that’s all I care about. And I wouldn’t be where I’m at had I not gone through all of that, right?
And so I talk a lot about that. You’re welcome. There’s a story for you. That totally spiraled. I’m so sorry. I did not mean to like, go on that massive tangent. Oh my God!
Joe Casabona: So I think this is important, right? Because I asked you, do you have stories locked and loaded?
Sara Loretta: It’s like how do you not tell that whole story? How do you pick one piece? Right? It’s like, I can’t be like, yeah, like hip-hop taught me how to be dope as f*** and like, not give a s***, but it’s like, okay. But how did you get there? Because you’re like the whitest girl in the entire world. Like I am white. You all like, I burn the second I walk outside. Okay! Like…
Joe Casabona: [Inaudible 31:19.19] she lives in Austin, Texas. I’m Italian. So I’m like, I’ve got like an Olive complexion. But I don’t spend that much time outside.
Sara Loretta: You wanna talk about white shades? I’m like an eggshell.
Joe Casabona: But I think this is important, right? Because, and like you said, it depends on the context of the show you’re going on, right?
So I have my story about being a freelancer. I have a story about being in drama club, how I used to put a sweater over my head and tell people to call me Sister Josephine. And like that’s my second-grade teacher, like told me to join drama club because of that.
Sara Loretta: Oh, the Catholic in me is like, Oh my God! My knuckles are gonna get beat for laughing.
My God! We used to hide behind a dumpster, our nuns. Sorry. Just a quick, funny story. I went to St. Anthony’s in Cleveland and our nun’s house was like in the parking lot of the school. And we used to legit hide behind the dumpster and throw rocks at the house. Like that’s what we’d…And we used to just like call out the nun’s names. Oh my God! It was rough. And they used to walk through our classrooms with like these big metal rulers. And if they didn’t think we were paying attention, they’d just like smack metal cabinets. They were mean, man. So you know what? I never broke windows. But I will say I taunted them.
Yeah. And you know, this is actually really funny, right? Because you went to grammar school in like the early two thousand, right? The late nineties, early two thousand.
Yeah. I was in third grade when 9/11 happened. Just for pinpoint reference.
Joe Casabona: Okay. Yeah. I was a junior in high school when 9/11 happened. So I feel like we were like on the tail end of like super mean nuns.
Sara Loretta: We were at the end of what? corporal punishment. Like that is not a thing. Kids don’t get paddled anything anymore.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I had to like grab it. I had like a little rat tail and she like grabbed it and was like, what is this rat tail? She told somebody in my class that nosy people die young in second grade. Like, imagine being nine and being told that. Like I would never ask any questions again.
Sara Loretta: Well, I think the worst thing for me was my sixth, seventh and eighth-grade teachers all had my stepmom and her brothers. So there was no getting away with anything at that school. It was rough. So yeah. Mrs. Sellers. And she was a Mormon teaching at a Catholic school. One of the most wonderful humans I’ve ever met in my life. So Catholic school, man.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. That’s awesome. I had the benefit and my parents grew up in the city. And they moved upstate when we were born. This is one of the rare times I’ll call where I’m from upstate because it’s not upstate. But they moved North of the City.
Sara Loretta: Sure. That’s upstate for Manhattans.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, it is. So like all the schools I went to, like, I was the first Casabona to go through.
I wasn’t a goodie two shoes, but I definitely knew how to kiss up to the staff. And so I got away with a lot and my brother did not. And so like, they’d always be like, “You’re nothing like your brother.” He had some choice words for me. But Catholic school, man.
Sara Loretta: It really shapes you. Listen you all like it really shapes you.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. It really does.
Sara Loretta: It makes you realize just how f***** up Catholic school is and how not f***** up the world is.
Joe Casabona: I remember going to college and like, I was like, “Oh yeah. I’m like going to church, you wanna come?” And they’re like, whatever, they were like Baptist or something. And I’m like, what do you mean you’re not Catholic? Like I couldn’t believe I met somebody who wasn’t Catholic.
Sara Loretta: Yeah. Oh my God! I had this friend in high school who was…Oh, God! What was she? She was Lutheran. And I remember telling my parents, “Hey, Leslie…” who I was in marching band. She was like one of the drill team girls. And I was like, “Leslie wants me to come out for after school.” Like we have a Biology project and my parents literally asked me, “Is she Catholic?” which is wild because my parents are not religious. I only went to Catholic school because of my stepmom’s parents. Like we did not go to church on Sundays. Like it was not a thing.
And I remember them saying, “Oh! You can’t hang out with her. She’s Lutheran”. And I’m like, what does that mean? And I remember getting in trouble because I really was like good friends with her. And I remember her asking me to go to like a roller skating birthday party or something. One of the only times I ever lied to my parents. I lied and said I was doing something else so I could hang out there. And when they found out, I was spending time with her, oh, it was like, all hell broke loose. It was. And I just like, I look back now, I’m…That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard in my life.
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Joe Casabona: I don’t know how we got onto parenting from here. I have three kids though so I constantly think about it.
Sara Loretta: It’s a hard No, for me. Hard NO. I will be a dog mom until I die.
Joe Casabona: My friends tell me I was born a dad. So I’m just like fulfilling my destiny, I guess. But, I’m like, am I gonna mess up my children? My parents took a very like, if we’re too harsh on them, then they will rebel and like do the things we don’t want them to do anyway.
Sara Loretta: Man, I wish I had that. Just a final story for you all because stories are fun. My parents used to make me kneel on rice [Inaudible 37:14.83]. That was how I was punished as a child.
Joe Casabona: Are you sure you didn’t grow up in the sixties? Like, are you sure?
Sara Loretta: My parents were born in the early seventies. And I don’t know what went through their mind. But yeah. That’s how. I was never hit. I was never spanked. I literally had to put my nose in the corner and they would pour rice on the ground and I would have to kneel on it. And it was not fun.
Joe Casabona: That is a classic, like Catholic punishment. Like…
Sara Loretta: I know.
Joe Casabona: My peers…I feel like that was like phased out by the time I was a kid. So that’s really interesting to hear that.
Sara Loretta: They would make me do that. I was probably 14 and still doing that. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: I got hit once and it only took…My mom hit me with a wooden spoon because I’m an Italian stereotype. And it was only once that ever had to happen.
Sara Loretta: Oh man! Yeah. I wish. I wish. I probably still have incidence honestly.
Joe Casabona: Man, yeah. That, like my knees, hurt just talking about that.
So one of the things that makes you a good podcast guest is you are very conversational. You are personable and you have this kind of good story, and you’re open to telling them, right? It’s really hard I think because usually podcast is in a video medium. It is all storytelling and weaving the right story. What do you think got you to that point? I guess. Right? Because you said you’re INTJ. Now I know that a common misconception among introverts is that they don’t like people. I am…I think I’m ESTJ. The way I remember this is, if you look at the Harry Potter chart, I’m McGonagall. That’s how I remember. So, ESTJ.
Sara Loretta: I’ve never seen that chart before. I’m curious who I would be.
I’m like Luna, to be honest like I’m more of an ambivert. But for me, I prefer to be more of an introvert because constant conversation and interaction are exhausting to me. I mean, before we got on this call, I had to sit in silence for about an hour so I would have the energy to come on this call and be like my full self. And I’ve had like five calls today. And so I was really afraid like, f***, I’m gonna get in this call and I’m just gonna not do well because I’m already like drained for the day.
But for me, that’s really what it is. And like, ironically, right? Like I’m a Notion consultant. I s*** at writing s*** down. I have a quote on my monitor that literally says:
“Your brain is for having thoughts, not holding them”
And so I have to force myself to write things down. And so my therapist, I do EMDR therapy. I think everybody showed it’s wonderful. It’s how your nervous system reacts to your memories, not how your brain remembers memories. And it’s this practice that all of your trauma has a connecting factor. And so you don’t have to focus on every single piece to relieve the trauma and the brain and the PTSD. You could focus on any of them and it will release from all of it. And so my therapist all the time, I’ll say something and she goes, that’s the INTJ in you. And I’m like, God! d*** it! It’s annoying. But yeah. It’s a good time.
Joe Casabona: That’s funny. So that’s really interesting. I’m like an extrovert all the way. This is like my third, like an hour and a half long conversation in a row. And I spent the morning at a coffee shop, like amongst other people like, I just, I know I’m like energized by people. Like the pandemic was very hard, right? Because I was like alone.
Sara Loretta: See? I loved it. I was like, cool. I don’t have to go anywhere. Oh my God! I can curbside my groceries. Yes. Like…
Joe Casabona: I was like, just trying to make eye contact with anybody, like in a mask like can we just connect, please?
Okay. So you said you’re INTJ. I’m doing a live lookup. It looks like you are Malfoy on this chart. The strategist.
Sara Loretta: F*** yeah. I always say that I’m a Slytherpuff depending on my caffeine intake. So there you go. Love it!
Joe Casabona: Nice. Very nice. I took the quiz on Pottermore and I’m pretty sure I answered in such a way that like made insured I got Gryffindor.
Sara Loretta: Yeah. I think it’s rigged.
Joe Casabona: It’s totally rigged. Yeah. I’m probably more who’s like is Ravenclaw, are they like the curious ones like the search for knowledge people or like in Hunger Games, is it [Inaudible 41:24.68]
Sara Loretta: I’ve never seen or read Hunger Games. I don’t know.
Joe Casabona: I’m like probably too old and too male to supposed to like them, like, but I enjoyed them.
Sara Loretta: Listen, I will take this to my grave. Twilight is one of the best series of all time. Okay. Listen. I am a huge Twilight fan. I mean, listen, Rocky’s my favorite movie of all time. I will throw down like nothing do on a Friday night. Guess I’ll turn Twilight on, like happy to, I just, I don’t know. I love the soundtrack. Like obviously Kristen did not do a great job in that role. It’s fine. It’s her first debut thing.
Joe Casabona: Hey, you know what though? Like, she’s been good in other roles. So like we can blame the director. Right? It’s like how Hayden was not good as Anakin, but that wasn’t his fault.
Sara Loretta: It’s all about the director a hundred percent. But yeah. That’s, I feel like I’m Jasper. I’m reserved until you get to know me and then it’s like a whole tidal wave coming out. So it’s like, let me show you my plants, my composter like you wanna come to hang out with my dog? Like once we’re cool, like there’s no going back. But until we get to that point like you probably won’t know much about me.
Joe Casabona: So like, I try to put on this, like closed off face if I’m like in a situation where I don’t know a lot of people.
Sara Loretta: Oh, God! I’m the worst person. If I go to an event and they’re taking photos, I am the maddest looking person in the room. And I’m like, I promise like I’m having like I went to this Crypto meetup yesterday. And by this female-led Crypto brand here in Austin called Lake Crypto. And they had a photographer taking photos and they posted a photo on their Instagram and I’m just like the stone face. Like I look so mad and I’m like, guys like you could have posted any other photo. Like, I look horrible in this because I just look so mad. I am like, I swear like I don’t, it’s just my face. You know, I hate being in event photos because I look mad all the time.
Joe Casabona: Oh man! That’s really funny. I’m like, this is me all the time. Like a big smile, no eyes. Like that’s how I smile in every picture.
I’m trying to think of an overarching theme for this episode, right? It’s really like getting to know Sara Loretta, but like it’s also, I think that there are a lot of really good gems here.
First of all, right? We talked early on about it because we’re coming up on time here. We’ve surpassed time a little bit, but this is really fun for me. But there are a couple of important things that we talked about here, right? Like, if you’re a podcaster, first of all, it’s your job to do research on the guest and pitch a topic to them. I always pitch a topic to my guest and then they are free to suggest something else. But it’s totally up to them.
If you are pitching, I think Sara, to your point, right? You should probably have three or four ready-made topics that you, you know, can talk about Notion, can talk about hip hop or personal life therapy. Like I was just on a podcast recently that wasn’t really like super on brand for me, but it’s called Dig to Fly. And I talked about my parenting philosophy and how I got therapy for the first time ever in the pandemic. Because like I had like something close to a panic attack. I don’t know if it was a real one I’ve never had. I don’t think I’ve ever had one. But, and then my daughter, like who was three at the time had to like tell me it would be okay. And like brought me water because like, apparently she’s like a very emotionally intelligent three-year-old. And after that I was like, I need to get help because I take care of my kids. My kids don’t take care of me. Right. Not at that age. Right.
Sara Loretta: But I think that’s what’s difficult about where we’re at in social media. And maybe that’s why this is so hard for me sometimes like, you don’t have to be on brand all the time. Right. Like I think so many of us are like, oh my God! If I talk about like this on Twitter or this, like, people are gonna be so confused and so thrown off. If I go and do one thing, you and I are in a very distinct time period of our age. Like when we grew up that we are incredibly multifaceted millennials and it just is what it is.
I mean, you and I can both remember dial-up. I remember my IM chat room. Like I remember Y2K being a thing. And so we’re in this phase where we remember life before the internet. But we also have been around it enough to understand like its potential. Right. And so you saying like, yeah, it was on this podcast and it’s not like on brand for me. It’s like, who the f*** cares? Like if it’s something you’re passionate about and you care about, and I think that’s like, especially starting to kind of do more PR and getting on podcasts and things. I have to like tell myself that like, yo, if someone wants to talk about hip hop or film or whatever, like It doesn’t matter because I still love it. And that just, I think, adds more of that like, and trust to people.
Now mind, probably people listening to this are not gonna go over that podcast unless they’re like, I’m not a parent. I have no interest in listening to that. Not that I don’t love you, but I have nothing to value from that. Right. But you may find that you have people in your audience that you cross with. And I feel like more people cross with things than they realize.
And even like on my Twitter account, I’m like, Oh my God! I wanna talk about basketball or weirdly I’m friends with Shays Ronald on Facebook. Okay. So I only know that today’s his birthday because Facebook told me. Okay. I wanted to go on Facebook and be like, “Yow! Happy Birthday to my homie” like remember five years ago when you retweeted my college paper and you got me all these writing jobs? Like, thank you, and like republish it. And I was like, man, people probably following me are gonna think that’s weird. And like, I’m not gonna do that. And like, I just think we gotta break that. I don’t know.
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Joe Casabona: I’m gonna call this a [Inaudible 48:05.49] episode. But I think that’s really good and important, right? Because like, I don’t tweet about politics because I don’t wanna get dragged on Twitter.
Sara Loretta: I have a whole private account for that.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Right. I just like my private account is me like venting to my wife because she’s the best. You know, I’m like afraid to get dragged on Twitter for anything I ever say ever. But like, I guess a good example, right? My mother-in-law passed away after a long battle with cancer in March. My wife and I both struggled with whether should we post it on Facebook. And like we did because it was the most efficient, (this sounds like a super robotic) efficient way to disseminate that information. But we were like, is this something that, and I think it’s probably a function of, like, there are definitely people who like experience their emotions, like through Facebook and like that’s too much. You don’t need to feel everything in a Facebook post, right? Like that.
But like you’re right. Like the personal stuff definitely does help with the like and trust factor. Right? Like so I tweet about the Yankee games, and like, I warn people, right? Like, “Hey, I’m tweeting about the Yankees today” or whatever, because if people only want to follow me for the podcast stuff or only wanna follow me for WordPress, I mean, especially the WordPress people are gonna be like increasingly disappointed now I’m like talking a lot less about that, but…
Sara Loretta: WordPress is trash anyway. It’s fine.
Joe Casabona: Oh man! Gauntlet, Throne.
Sara Loretta: Oh, listen. I’m Squarespace Developer, guys. So it’s fine.
Joe Casabona: Hey! All right. Well, see? If we hadn’t already been talking for an hour and a half at this point, we could dig into that to another episode where this is gonna be a trilogy for the ages. I like that actually, right? Yeah.
Sara Loretta: I feel the same way because living in Austin…So my boyfriend’s a master plumber and he does like all new construction and does a lot of like million dollar homes and stuff like that. And his business partner, Tony’s niece was one of the teachers that died in Uvalde]. And we stayed at their house. We go to Uvalde regularly. It’s like two hours from our house and that was last week, or I guess maybe now it’s been two weeks. But it was one of the hardest days I’ve had in a very long time because it’s like, oh, this is like in my backyard now. This isn’t just something we’re seeing on TV. And I was really angry that day. And I was like, you know what? I don’t give s**. If all these Notion people have a problem with me saying like I’m pissed off about our gun laws like so be it. But this is personal now because I knew the person. I think even in that tweet, I was like, it’s no longer a matter of if it’s going to happen to you. It’s a matter of when. And you know what, who cares? You know, if I have to post that, I do. And I think sometimes, like, I think people, again, just like take their brand just too seriously and too, you know, it’s like, if you wanna tweet about the Yankees sucking, like go for it.
Joe Casabona: Hey! Wait.
Sara Loretta: Like how ended that on a quick turn?
Joe Casabona: That was masterfully done. I think it’s time to end this interview.
Well done, Sara. This has been really fun.
Sara Loretta: Oh! I had a great time.
Joe Casabona: I always talk about like the actionable advice stuff. You got that in the beginning, and then you just got a fun conversation for the listeners. So if they wanna learn more about you and your work, where can they go?
Sara Loretta: Yeah. So personally I am @thesaraloretta. No “H”. I take that very personally. I do not have an H on my name. I am @thesaraloretta on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, all of those things.
If you wanna follow my business, [99saintclaire], everywhere, too. So whichever. But it’s totally cool if like we didn’t vibe and you’re like, I never wanna hear from this girl again like, it’s totally fine. But I like to tell everybody I do not care who you are. My DM’S is always open. If you have questions, if you need support, I don’t believe in paywalls. So if you just have like questions about anything in business, like, I am so happy to help everyone because I believe that we all deserve to have success no matter what our bank accounts look like. So anything you need, feel free to reach out and I’ll see you on the internet. Or maybe in real life, if you live in Austin, we can totally hang out.
Joe Casabona: I love that. I think this will be like the last takeaway. Usually, I ask about trade secrets. I think this is a good one. You don’t need to please everybody. That’s not how you grow in business and that’s not how you grow as a person. If you’re too busy, trying to please everybody, then you are going to be sad yourself.
Sara Loretta: I will tell you when I release that Notion basics course, I had multiple people be like, when are you putting a paywall on this? How much is this gonna be? And I’m like, bro, it’s Free. And people are like why? And I’m like because I want it to be. Like, why do I have to provide a paywall just to prove my value? Like, don’t do it. Just make sure you’re not wasting your time if you’re giving stuff away for free.
But that’s my whole motto is just do your best. Show up every day. Be kind to people. I know Ellen says that but like be kind to people and make dope s***. And that’s all that matters. So…
Joe Casabona: Love it. Be kind to people. Make dope s***. This is a momentous occasion for many reasons. This is the first explicit podcast episode.
Sara Loretta: Oh my God!
Joe Casabona: And it’s the first time I’ve ever cursed on the podcast.
Sara Loretta: I’ve really broken that Catholic mold, huh?
Joe Casabona: I know, right? Yeah. I curse a lot in real life. And there are people who are like, I had no idea that you cursed and I’m like, that’s super weird because it’s like most of what I say at home.
Sara Loretta: Listen, it’s the behind the closed doors. I’m telling you. That’s what the Catholic mold is. What stays behind that front door does not leave. And here you are expanding your palette and I’m so proud.
Joe Casabona: Here we go.
Thank you very much! Sara Loretta, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for joining us today.
Sara Loretta: Thanks for having me. I had fun.
Joe Casabona: Thank you for listening. This was such a fun conversation.
If you wanna get the pre-show, which was just a lot of [Inaudible 53:54.83]. And you’ll find out like why I [Inaudible 53.57.18], join the creator crew over at [joincreatorcrew.com].
If you wanna get links to all of Sara’s Notion resources and all of the show notes, you can head over to [howibuilt.it/281]. That’s where you will find all of the show notes.
But thank you so much for listening. Thanks to our sponsors for this episode. They are TextExpander, Nexcess, and Learndash.
And until next time. Get out there, and build something.