Intro: If you're overwhelmed by a chaotic business that's stealing time from your family, Streamlined Solopreneur is for you.
Hey, everybody. My name is Joe Casabona, and I've been there. And on this show, I will show you how to turn chaos into clarity so you can stop checking your email at the playground.
Joe Casabona: Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Streamlined Solopreneur. I'm your host, Joe Casabona, and I am here in real life with Charlotte Crowther. And so you make signature frameworks for people.
Charlotte Crowther: That’s right.
Joe Casabona: We're going to really get into this, but in doing kind of research on your background like, you had some stops along the way before you got to the signature framework.
Charlotte Crowther: Gosh. Well, first of all, like, hi.
Joe Casabona: Yes, hi. Welcome to the show.
Charlotte Crowther: Thanks for having me. I'm so excited that we're doing this.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: And then we were able to do it in person while we're hearing Boise together.
So, the answer is, I would say, No. I never would have imagined that I'm doing what I'm doing now. I love it. It's the best thing ever, and I'm so glad. And if I reflect back on my journey to date, it's kind of actually the most obvious thing, but it's one of those things, like you don't know what you're doing. You keep going, you trust, you figure it out, and it's like the best thing ever.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. It's such, I feel like that's a, it's been a recurring theme here at. So, again, if you're watching the video, you'll notice that Charlotte and I are in the KIT studios in Boise. We are very lucky to be using Nathan's studio, the Alchemy.
Charlotte Crowther: Thank you, Nathan.
Joe Casabona: Thank you, Nathan. Very nice. So, shout out to Kit, shout out to Craft and Commerce. It's been an amazing week. But, yeah, I think that's been like a common thread. It's like you don't necessarily need to know everything at the start. Tiny experiments have been a common saying this week.
And Pat talked, Pat Flynn talked about lean learning and being an expert in one thing. So, I've learned a lot this week. And it sounds like everything that you've learned led you to this point.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah. Just to pick up on that, actually, I was just chatting with Nick Milo just before I came up to the studios, and he was like, you know, so how's it been? Like, you come all the way from London, UK, to come like, you know, what have you got out of it? And I was like, do you know what? I've never been somewhere with such a high concentration of people who have just gone for it and had the courage to kind of take it a step at a time and figure it out and be okay with uncertainty and sort of work and figure it out in a sort of creative way and build their businesses. Some are more traditional businesses that have a big sort of social media marketing, YouTube newsletter, blogging, and sort of arm.
And then, you know, some are more like, you know, I'm an artist and I'm like, creating a course and sharing about online. Like, you kind of got, you know, a range of sort of educators and then sort of creators who kind of build their business online.
And it's, yeah. I think it's what I really appreciate is that, you know, it takes a certain kind of vulnerability and courage.I feel like that's a real, like, shared feeling here. And everyone's just so open and welcoming. It's like, just so nice to share that with someone else and see how that pops up in their life and, like, their color and flavor.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. It's like an instant camaraderie. Right. I mean, like, somebody asked me, like, somebody asked me recently, like, why I smoke cigars. And like, that's part of it is, like, you're immediately brought together by this, like, common, this commonality, and like, being a creator and like, all getting together. Because we mostly work online.
Charlotte Crowther: And in our, like, home office. Right?
Joe Casabona: Right. Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: With a bit of co-working sometimes you’ll understand.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. With people in our lives who, like, barely understand what we do.
And, you know, the people that I met here the first time I came, I consider really good friends and, like, instant friends. And I think, again, because of that, because there's like a strong community and camaraderie here. Like, you know, you go to conferences and it's like, what do you do? Here's my business card. Hire me. Like, there's none of that, like, overly salesy smarm, you know, which just makes this such an amazing conference.
Charlotte Crowther: Totally. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Okay. So, now that we've gushed about Kit and Craft and Commerce, I'll have a link too. It'll be an affiliate link, but it'll be a link in the show notes for Kit, because I love it.
Let's get into the nuts and bolts of this. You are a signature framework consultant. Let's start, even without signature, what is a framework?
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah. So, a framework is a diagram that gives structure to knowledge. Yeah. And because of a visual structure, and because of that, you're able to just sort of read the diagram and use both our verbal and visual way of taking information through our brain to make sense of something. And because we're not only using words, we're using our visual spatial capacity. The speed at which we understand a concept is much, much faster. So we are leveraging the way our mind works more effectively, and we are able to communicate more deeply a particular concept.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, that is, I mean, easily the best definition of framework I've ever heard. Right. And it makes sense. And you know, when I was a Computer Science major, we always talked about how words were imprecise. Like that's why we like Math. Right.
Charlotte Crowther: I didn't know that. Okay, cool. Good to know.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. So like when you try to describe something without the visuals, it's really, it could be really hard for someone to truly understand what you're trying to communicate. And something that I always incorrectly thought about frameworks was like is that it was more like a blueprint. Like, oh, my framework is Step 1, do this, Step 2, do that, Step 3, do this. But that's not really the case, right? Or it doesn't necessarily have to be the case.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah. I think frameworks have got a bit of a bad rep because I would say marketers, as much as I love you guys, have kind of…
Joe Casabona: Co. Opted.
Charlotte Crowther: Co-opted, bastardized frameworks, you know, to like three steps or an acronym or… And it's like overly simplified, and it's, it's not really, I mean, it is a framework of sorts.
Joe Casabona: Right.
Charlotte Crowther: But I think a successful framework has a visual component, so you can take advantage of that dual coding is the sort of terminology for how we kind of code information in these two ways. And, yeah interestingly, it's not about just using a visual framework. It's paired with text. I'm not here, sort of on my high horse, being like, only use frameworks. No, no, no, no. It's just that most people only use text. So I'm saying create a framework and in complement with appropriate text, communicate your best ideas.
Joe Casabona: Right? Yeah. And the framework is like, it's both. It gives you the language to use and the visuals to assist it with. Right. Because I could tell you how I automate my processes, but how I do something is not necessarily a framework. I need to take that and maybe generalize it a little more. Is that?
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah, it's interesting. That can be something else. Let's clear that up.
So there are different kinds of frameworks because there are different kinds of needs and use cases. So some are simpler and Diagrammatic, or like a table. It's a framework of sorts.. And these frameworks are sort of, I call sort of the tertiary level frameworks, where you're kind of on the ground using them to complete an automation process that you're using a Make and Zapier and Kit, and your email. And so you just need a very simple visual that you can just follow, almost like an IKEA step-by-step. And that it might not seem like the grandeur of like some big methodology framework, but it is a framework, it's a tertiary framework. I mean it goes. It's so practical, it's almost a diagram.
Joe Casabona: Right.
Charlotte Crowther: But if it is within your framework ecosystem, your body of knowledge, and because I work with signature frameworks, we can speak a bit more about what that is, but you can bring in like, a visual identity to it. So, you know, it's part of the system and it's not as sexy as some like big concept, but it is an important part is the doing of the thing and having a visual to accompany. You're learning an application of how to execute X as part of your welcome sequence, as part of your customer relationship strategy, which is sitting in that bigger level. You come down at this tertiary level, but it's still part of the same ecosystem of knowledge.
And not to be disregarded, we need to actually do the thing at the same time. So that's what I call a tertiary-level framework.
A secondary level, if we take the welcome sequence analogy, as, okay, you want to have eight emails. In the first email, you're saying X, second email, you're saying Y. And there is a structure, right?. So that would be like your welcome email sequence. And then that primary framework could be like, how do you win the hearts and minds of your new email subscribers?
Joe Casabona: Gotcha.
Charlotte Crowther: And that's the framework for that email consultant. Right. So that's how you sort of zoom in and zoom out of the different levels.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, gotcha. Love that. Okay, well, so you mentioned tertiary, secondary is the primary framework, like the signature framework. Is there a primary framework?
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah. So the signature framework is kind of speaking to your premise as a coach, consultant, author, or expert. However, you sort of name yourself as a professional and you have a particular premise, perspective, approach, point of view on how to do X. And so you are communicating that efficiently through a primary framework.
And you're actually sort of at a primary level. As I've worked on this more, I'm kind of actually finding that you have visuals to even, so predominantly you would have a primary framework that shows your methodology of how to achieve X. But more and more, I'm creating visuals to show the premise of why you should engage in doing the methodologies. And that will have., sometimes it's the same visual as the methodology framework, sometimes it's the same visual language, but it's a separate diagram because it's a separate concept to communicate. So I've been developing that more actually with the experts that I work with.
So you develop at a primary level of communication, like that headline level, kind of key concepts, and that might be your premise, it might be your methodology, it might be about you and who you are. And that's important because that relays kind of what you're about in your message.
And the secondary level is like you just don't need to know that top line information, but when you do, double click, it's right there. And it's part of this whole knowledge base, this whole knowledge ecosystem which nests inside each other, and it's just like it flows and it makes sense and it's been all thought through end to end.
Joe Casabona: Gotcha. So it sounds like a tertiary framework would be almost like how to automate a process. Right? Like you take the trigger, there's a condition, there's the action. Right?
Charlotte Crowther: Right, exactly.
Joe Casabona: The secondary framework would be how to build your system around automations. And you know, so it's not just like one specific automation, it's almost like here's your system for running your business, and kind of why you would want that. So it's like you need to consider automations, you need to consider delegation, you need to consider the things that you're not doing at all. Is that kind of…
Charlotte Crowther: So what you described there was set at the primary level because you're explaining at a high-level view of delegation, system, and automation. So then the secondary framework of that is like, how do you actually achieve delegating successfully? How do you actually set up your system? That's a secondary level.
Joe Casabona: Cool. Great. That's. Yeah. Okay. That really like solidifies it in my mind. So this is awesome.
Charlotte Crowther: Great.
Joe Casabona: So, would you say we have defined signature framework? Is there or is there like you have a….
Charlotte Crowther: So what makes a framework signature is the visual design of that framework, image, visual. You know, a lot of, I mean anything you draw is made up of a circle, a triangle, a square, a line of some sort. But there's a way in which you compose that. that is very signature and unique to you. And you know, we can share examples like in the swipe file, I'll be sharing.
Joe Casabona: We'll put that in the show notes as well.
Charlotte Crowther: We'll put that in the show notes as well. Exactly. And then on top of that visual being very distinctive, the branding of the visual is correlated to the organization or the individual whose expertise is being showcased in the framework. And so it becomes a signature framework. It's unique to you.
And more specifically, as well, it's proprietary, not just because of the thinking behind it and what's represented in the visual, but because it has that rounding visual element to that distinctive visual. It's totally proprietary and part of your intellectual property, and what you would protect as well and get trademarked.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. That's a really key point, I think. Not the get the trademark. Definitely get the trademark. But like, anybody could say you need to automate and delegate. Right. Everybody who's in the system space says, Oh, I save you time. Right. Like, that's like. Sure. Every business boils down to saving you time or money. Right. And so having that visual component. Right. You mentioned lines. So, like, Holly Arnett did my branding, which again, I'll link this in the show notes, but like, she created this, like, distinct system of these wavy, not really straight lines, but there's space between. And a streamlined business is a spacious business is part of my brand. And so some of these elements would likely go into my signature framework.
Charlotte Crowther: Exactly. Especially as I love. Probably she's great. She's done that work. But we would build off of that. Actually, I mean, it's totally fine. But actually, the more I work on this, the more I would encourage a company to define their intellectual property first and create a visual language around it, and that then informs that brand.
So, if you think about it, like, when you're developing a brand, you're like, thinking about what is your message, what is it that you do. So to like, double click on that and get it really clear and create the visual around it, and then you, and then, like, you build the brand around that or you do both in tandem, but they inform each other is, like, super powerful.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Oh, that's super cool. Okay. So, let's get into the concrete. What's like, one of your favorite frameworks that you've developed, signature frameworks that you've developed recently?
Charlotte Crowther: Well, we've got to talk about Justin.
Joe Casabona: We do have to talk about Justin. Yes.
Charlotte Crowther: It would be criminal. I think he would actually shoot us if he did.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Charlotte Crowther: So I think everyone knows you work with Justin, right?
Joe Casabona: Yeah, yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: It's like a known thing.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. So, you know, I mean, longtime listeners will know I did sponsorship coaching on my own. And then I worked with Justin, and he made me a better sponsorship getter, and I felt really weird, like teaching his stuff to my clients. So he brought me on, and now I work very closely with him there. And so, yeah, he has a whole framework around.
Charlotte Crowther: Right, let's get it. So this is his recent new book sponsor magnet,
Joe Casabona: Yeah. sponsormagnet.com.
Charlotte Crowther: Right, exactly. And this, yeah, is his framework that I helped develop in 2023. And he's used this in his courses. Wow. In his knowledge base, in his NOW book in his marketing sales.
Joe Casabona: I mean, it informs everything we do.
Charlotte Crowther: Right. In his events. Right. And it's like, how do you say it was like, it's the blood running through the veins, my business. Like he is being as bold to say that.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, yeah. Which I'll tell you. So Charlotte and I met this week as we record this, and she's talking about this. I had no idea that you developed the framework. I'm like, oh, wow, Justin. Like this is a really good thing that Justin came up with because it's, it really is, it affects like, I mean like the chapters in his book are. Yeah, it's, it's called the sponsor wheel.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah.
Joe Casabona: It's eight segments of a wheel, all like every stage of doing a brand deal. And it was like, it informed the games at the Sponsor Games. It informs his content. I'm like vibe coding these tools for like people to practice each stage of the wheel. So like it's really like he said, it's the blood running through the veins of his business. It's been, it's permeated every aspect of his business.
Charlotte Crowther: Justin is a smart dude, and what I really like about him is, you know, you know, of course, he helps people make money, which, you know, helps them create the lives they want. But ultimately it's about impact for him, which I love, how that's like, you know, it's so easy, especially with, you know, money and sponsorships to get, get busy with that. And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, all of that. But it's like, it's about impact. Right. And, and he knows to be impactful, you need to make it easy, clear, and simple for people, and you need to repeat. That's how we learn, that's how we remember. So sure, he's building a brand for himself. He's the go-to person for sponsorship coaching, and he does it for all those reasons, but he does it ultimately to help his people.
And it's like, you can never have enough for showing his will and keep talking about his will and using it. One of the favorite use cases is that he's made this wheel. He's at a conference, and he's like, spin the wheel, the sponsorship wheel. And then they spin it and it has a question which then creates a prompt that he has, and he's interviewing them on that question, like, as creative and as fun as that, and what a great way to sort of get to know people.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: But, you know, he's just really using it and sharing it, and I just love how he gets it. And he's really using it from that place of impact. That's what it's about. And ultimately it's a knowledge organizer.
Joe Casabona: Yes.
Charlotte Crowther: So you're, so, you know, his YouTube channel has like, sections based on the eight steps.
Joe Casabona: And so I want to really speak to this. Right. Because, like, something that I don't have a signature framework yet, but, like, when I'm trying to figure out what kind of content to do for my YouTube channel. It's like a little, It's like kind of what I'm thinking about that day. Right. Or like, last year I wrote, oh, I could have the GAPS framework. So I talk about gear, automation, processes, and systems, and I'm like, what's the difference between automations, processes, and systems? I really need to define that. and do I want to talk about gear? And so, like, you're with the sponsor wheel, like, all of his content falls into a very nice bucket. And it's all based on this signature framework. And that reduces cognitive load and helps him produce the sheer amount of content he produces.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah. So my first career was as a professional artist. And I know people think, like, if you're an artist, like, you're some sort of mad hatter. Right. You're, like, super crazy and you're…
Joe Casabona: You're like Professor Trelawney or whatever.
Charlotte Crowther: Right, Right. And everything's like, everywhere. And I mean, I have outside to me, but I something I already, like, figured out was if in my studio, I put all my brushes in one place and all my paints in another, and I kind of created these simple systems. I would have more time to paint, and it would create more space to be creative. And, like, since then, I've just grown in nerdiness in terms of systems and stuff to, like, levels that, you know, are pretty, pretty, pretty quirky, let's say.
Joe Casabona: I mean, the people who listen to the show listen to me talk every week. So, like, we're in good company. We're in great company.
Charlotte Crowther: That's it. We'll have this, like, swap some pictures and stuff, and chat shop about that. But it's exactly that when it comes to a sort of content. Right. You know, you're spending time figuring this and figuring that, but if you stopped and paused and took some time to just think deeply about what you do, connect those dots, clarify those things, put things into order, and structure, it's basically like an SOP for your IP, really.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: You like anything when you bring an SAP to it. You standardize. You enable people to come in. Like, how you can come in and be like, okay, I'm going to, you know, create a game around this so people can practice how to pitch. Right. Like, doesn't depend on Justin anymore, doesn't have to explain it. He has a system that he can train his team around, and they can get creative about it because there's a structure. And as a solid, reliable structure.
And something like I recorded with Justin earlier this week, and he was like, Charlotte, it works. And I can shout loud and far about it because I know it works, and it really helps people. Like, It's actually like, it works. Use it. Like, it's really coming from that place. You know, it's not like, oh, I've got this system, like, I'm impressive. Follow me. You know, it's like, no, no, this actually works and helps.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. It's not just a buzzword.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah. It's not some marketing gimmick, which is like, follow the system. Like, it's like, legit. And so I think it kind of gives you that confidence as well. And then because you have that clarity and that structure, and you double click, you actually get deeper into it, you know, to like, ooh, we can practice the pitching in this way. We're going to do a challenge in this way. Right. We need to talk about it in this way. You know, we're actually talking to him about the moment, about sort of creating some foundational videos for his YouTube channel. And again, like, you know, we'll come back to those eight steps and build off there. We're not reinventing the wheel again.
Joe Casabona: Pun intended. No pun intended there.
Charlotte Crowther: There we go. And it's, yeah. it's a whole different ball game. And as you say, that's also what helps him be prolific, accelerate his competitive advantage. It's so powerful.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I mean, one more thing before we move on from Justin, as sad as that will make him is, you know, he gave a workshop at Craft and Commerce and I had vibe coded these things for our, for his podcast. Right. I'm like a guest co-host, I guess, and he texted me, he's like, I'm just gonna throw out my slides and use these things.
And the workshop was so much better because it went from him talking at people and saying, like, here's why you need to negotiate or whatever, to like, hey, let's actually take steps one and two of the sponsor wheel and actually do some real tangible, never before seen examples and then critique how you did. And it was, I mean, he went over time, and it is, it's one of the most talked about workshops I've heard from this week.
Charlotte Crowther: Oh, so great.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. So, I think you've maybe touched on this a bit, but what are some of the hidden costs of not having a signature framework?I think like…
Charlotte Crowther: Well, we just spoke about one of them, like reinventing the wheel each and every time.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: It's the difficulty, the struggle to explain what you do.
Joe Casabona: Which lots of people do. Right. I mean, like the first talk at Craft and Commerce was about that. And it's, it's like, oh, well, I do this and I do this and like, I kind of do this. And a signature framework gives you the language to not do that.
Charlotte Crowther: And show what you do
Joe Casabona: And show, yeah..
Charlotte Crowther: And then take the advantage of dual coding.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: And be memorable in someone else's mind.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: It's something more tangible that your clients can speak to and share with their people and recommend you.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Yes. So this is actually on LinkedIn, you said frameworks, Signature frameworks shift you from, trust me, I'm good, to here's precisely how I create success. I want to talk about that a little more because I feel like this is something that solopreneurs really struggle with. And maybe this is just because I come from the programming space, and we're very concrete. It's like I build you a website. Right. And, but that's okay. So does Squarespace. So does AI. Right. Like, why should I, Why would I hire you to build a website, or I help build you automations? What are automations? Is usually the first question I get when that was the thing I said I do. So let's, I want to talk about this a little bit because, like, trust me, I'm good. Is how I've lived my whole life.
Charlotte Crowther: Is it?
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Its just that…
Charlotte Crowther: Okay. Did that hit a chord?
Joe Casabona: Yeah, very. It's just very, like, if you build it, they will come and I'm like, well, I built these great things, and when people see them, they'll intuitively know they need them and hire me. And that happens sometimes, but it's definitely not a way to grow a business or a mailing list.
Charlotte Crowther: Well, you know, the benefits are internal and external. One, if we start with the internal, it's like you clarify your own thinking, which means you're not reinventing every time, and you create a standard for yourself. I mean, you can iterate and build on it, but you have a baseline that's documented that you can improve upon.
But two, in terms of the client experience, you could share them. This is what we're going to go through. And if you make it visual, they're going more likely to engage with it than a block of text. It helps set expectations, and it brings clarity to the conversation. There's any assumptions from the outset that can be managed. It brings structure to the website service experience, especially when things are a bit more intangible. It's professional, it's clear. And you're more likely to get better results because of the structure that you've created for you and your client.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I mean, when I tell people how to figure out what to automate, are the inputs clear, and are the outputs clear? It's almost the same thing. Right. It's like, are you clear on what you need for success? And then is the success metric obvious?
Charlotte Crowther: Right, right. And as you get clear on that, you design backwards to enable that to happen. Right. So there's like these deeper things that, like chains of thought, chains of action that happen for you, but also for your client. Like, if your client knows the structure of your service, they can prepare for it.
Joe Casabona: Right, right.
Charlotte Crowther: And feel excited for placing their testimonials so that when you create the website, they'll organize and you can just go, thanks for like Google Docs and Google Drive with the photos of, you know, your clients in. Boom. Right.
And you can anticipate asking them to prepare that before they start working with you. And everyone's happier. Right. You're not like, delayed in your process. They feel like they can prepare and get the most out of it and spend the time that they do have with you on higher leveraging, and like, oh, shoot, I need to go and collect those testimonials. And, you know, then there’s sort of running around for that week.
Joe Casabona: Running around pictures, Right. And because that's, I mean, like, that's busy solopreneur parents have a lot of cognitive load. Right. When I'm on a call, it's likely that my kids are upstairs or sometimes in my office. Right. And when I am cognitively distracted by my kids, I have a very hard time articulating on a discovery call my exact value because I have to reinvent the wheel, I have to think about the words again, and I'm getting better at that. But I can just imagine a lot of my potential clients are parents as well, and they're probably thinking the same thing on the other side of the camera. What am I gonna, what am I gonna make for dinner? What time is it? Do I have to get the kids? What was that noise? And if I'm meandering and I'm unclear, then they're not gonna get it, and it's not their fault. That would be my fault. Right. For not making it as clear as possible.
Charlotte Crowther: That's it. Right. I mean, these are nuances, but it's all these nuances that add up. And so by having an SOP around your IP, you can then build out from there so much more effectively, and you can put it in your marketing, on your sales page. And so people aren't going to be attracted to your approach to automations and understand what you do and what you offer in comparison to a competitor. Right. Who may walk through that more. And then it's like well, the expert who explains how you work with them, well, they do seem more appealing than the one who's just like, trust me. Right?
So you know, so then they're more, so they're more likely to put that discovery call with you and then discovery call, you kind of walk through it and then because you have a structure, it means that you spend less, you waste less time in that half an hour, 45 minutes that you've got with them and you walk through it, it's clear. And you spend more time on any doubts they have, which you can address any questions around pricing, dates when you can start the things that are going to move the needle and speed up the conversion. If it makes sense, of course, to work together, and equall,y if it doesn't make sense to work together, if they don't agree with your methodology. Save the headache.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, great.
Charlotte Crowther: On both parts.
Joe Casabona: Right. We're not halfway into it, saying you're doing crappy work, and me saying like.
Charlotte Crowther: But this is how it works, this.
Joe Casabona: This is how it works.
Charlotte Crowther: You've managed those expectations up front. So you're saving time and all those stages of the process, you know, from like what content do I put on my marketing? To them arriving on your sales page and being confident to book, they want to book a call with you to the, you know, to the call time. Like it's all these small gains, they add up, and you know, it's hard to sort of make it super tangible. I mean, I mean, I do hear clients are like, I can convert more quickly. My service appears more premium because I can explain my unique perspective and methodology. So they're able to charge a higher fee and they're able to attract more lucrative opportunities in a way that, you know, you know, giving workshops or speaking because they have a methodology, you know, you know you're going to be chosen for having that for someone who doesn't. Right. So there's all these, all these nuances.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, yeah. I mean like this, this has been a big week of self-reflection for me. And as you were talking, I was thinking about my approach to discovery calls. And it's never like, okay, the fact that you filled out this form makes me fully understand your problem. It's always like, so tell me about your problem. Right. And then they go through it, and I'm like, okay, here are a few ways I think I can help you. And like, I probably lose half, half the people right there.
Joe Casabona: You think you can help me? I want somebody who knows they'll help me. Right. And so this, I mean this has been hugely helpful already. But I do want to wrap up with, if a lot of our listeners are thinking, as I'm thinking right now, that we need a signature framework. You know, I obviously don't want to get, I don't want you to give away your secret sauce, but let's enter, let's get this out of the way. Does it need to be an acronym?
Charlotte Crowther: I love that, I love that. The amount of times, you know, also working with clients, you know, the amount of time they spend on ChatGPT, being like, how do you create an acronym for this system? And I'm like, oh, I think it's a classic. Clear over clever, simple over complex. Easier said than done. And definitely the difference between a novice and an expert. I think for me to give a more tangible example, sometimes there are just the right words for communicating the thing that, you know, that's the key action at that time. And if you press it for another word, just so it can fit into an acronym, it dilutes it.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: And look, if it works, great. And of course, you know, see if it can work, but not at the expense of, you know, complexity and, and like, yeah, something clever. Like it just…
Joe Casabona: like, if you're trying to like back in some words to an acronym you want, like that. You know, I was yesterday while Chris was, Chris Donnelly was, Donnelly was talking. I was like, you know, he was talking about a little bit. Frameworks, acronyms. And I'm like, oh, what? How do I make this an acronym? And I just couldn't get there. Like document, automate, delegate, and remove. There's no way to make that a word. And that is the clearest way to communicate what I help people do.
Charlotte Crowther: So, another thing is people who use acronyms depend on the verbal element, right?
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: And so, and that's another thing. Right. If you bring in that visual element and create this diagram and create a signature visual around it, you're like leaning on that to tap into the memory and bringing in icons or arrows. And so you can communicate that in other forms and still get the integrity of the word that really resonates and touches the person that as they're actioning, remembering these key concepts, they can really access it and apply it.
Joe Casabona: I'm thinking about Justin's sponsor wheel again and I'm like, what, How unclear would it be if he tried to back an acronym into that? Yeah, pitch, negotiate, concept, feedback, produce. Like, what word, what word would you need to find for that? Right. But like, you see the sponsor wheel and you, you know the process.
Charlotte Crowther: That's the thing. I mean, I'm sure you know it off by heart now, Right. But when you first encounter it, you don't need to know all right words. You just, you just get like, you use this system and you keep using it like a flywheel and you'll land consistent, well-paying sponsorships. And that's all you need to know to begin with. Right, And then you're like, okay, I really need to learn how to pitch. And so you double click on that and you sort of internalize those learnings. Right. And then you sort of go on to the next step and internalize those learnings. And so you develop your own associations and hooks with it. But what's so great is like, you know, the visual of justice at will is beautiful. It's compelling. You want to remember it, you want to create visual hooks around it. And that's also why it's so powerful.
Joe Casabona: And within each inside pitch, he does have the rope method. Right. And within follow-up or creating a PCR, he has the Pino follow-up, you know, so it's like your signature framework makes like leads the way for creating bigger systems or the opportunity for acronyms if you really want them inside.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's not just like take it away.
Joe Casabona: Right.
Charlotte Crowther: But you know, you just use them at the appropriate place. All I would say is like, you know, the, you know, the rope, the Pinot acronym. Like they're tertiary level frameworks, right? And they're like, I mean, you could still invest in making them beautiful. It depends sort of on your sort of budget. Really. It is an investment of time and to really kind of mark it up and make it an accomplishing visual. But you can also do a really good version of that without breaking the bank. And so I think that's the thing. You can kind of zoom in and zoom out.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so doesn't need to be an acronym. What is the first thing someone should think about when creating their signature framework?
Charlotte Crowther: So common mistake, misconception, forward approach is a really common thing that I hear is I've written over 100 newsletters, I've got 50 blog posts, I've got 25 YouTube videos. There's a framework in there, right? People see it like very content-focused, like this kind of marketing hat. Because those examples that they see, so they don't know any better. But, I think the thing that they miss is thinking, what is the outcome that I want to enable people to get through my framework?
And then when you ask that question, what's the A, what's the B? You get really clear and get really focused. I want people to have an efficient automation set up so they have more time back for their life and business. For example, in your world, and it's like, okay, so what do they need to achieve that you kind of design backwards from that, and it's then much clearer, like what to keep in your framework and what to keep out.
Joe Casabona: Right.
Charlotte Crowther: And then, you know, you have a sort of an anchor. Whereas if you have so many ideas, there's no anchor, like what are you shooting for? And then that's where people like get lost and they just don't know what's left, what's right, what's up or down. And then, and you just spin your wheels. It's difficult to imagine kind of what a framework could possibly be. How could I possibly have a framework? Because it's just like everything's everywhere. There's no, there's no definition.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. It's almost like looking at just like a plot of land and going like, yeah, I could build a house. I could build a house anywhere. But like if you see the basement somewhere, the structure somewhere.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah. Where does the sun rise?
Joe Casabona: Right. Yeah, yeah. This is where I can build my, this is where I will build my house. And this is how I can build my house.
Charlotte Crowther: Right? And then you, and then you get clearer. Like, do I want to build it in the middle of the plot or is I like a stream over there, and I don't want to, like, do it too close to the stream? Or I want to have a big lawn area so my kids can play there? You know, I want to wake up with the sun rising, and I want to see it in this way versus that way. You start to bring definition, and then when you start to do that, there's only so many places you can actually start building the house. So, you know, similarly. But I think perhaps more simply, it's just like, what does this framework enable for the user? When you get really clear about that, and I recommend writing it down, the outcome is so much easier to design backwards to enable it.
Joe Casabona: I think you probably want to be. Because I think I'm certainly inclined to say, well, I'm saving them time. You want to be more specific. right? I can imagine that the basis for Justin's signature framework is something like, I want to make sure anybody who uses this gets consistent brand deals. There's consistent, better-paying brand deals. Something like that.
Charlotte Crowther: Exactly. And it's like, okay, super clear to achieve that. Do these eight steps.
Joe Casabona: Right? Yeah, I love that. Well, Charlotte, this has been awesome. We've just scratched the surface of signature frameworks. So if you want to learn more, reach out to Charlotte. Where can people find you?
Charlotte Crowther: Thanks so much. Yeah, my website is signatureframework.co, and I'm actually just in the process of launching a new signature framework swipe file, which you're welcome to grab. I'll put the link in the show Notes. Like yourself, many people ask me, so how do I start? And often what people find helpful is seeing examples of other signature frameworks, so they can see kind of what it looks like for a coach using it or a consultant using it.
And I'm also going to categorize them by industry as well, so you get to see different examples. And I'll include like a loom video to kind of walk through what's working well about the framework and what could be improved. So you get a bit of a sense of sort of how to think about it and use it in your business.
Joe Casabona: I love that because I know, I don't know. I'll let Charlotte tell her own secrets, but she has worked with many cool people and has developed many cool signature frameworks. So really, really cool to see your work in action in the Wild and Books I've read and things I've consumed.
Charlotte Crowther: Thanks. Yeah, no appreciate it. It's been an absolute pleasure. Very grateful to have worked with some experts, you know, with different sizes of followings. You know I really, really like working with the rising stars as well as the more well-known stars.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: You know and I think there's ultimately people who really care actually really, really care and really want to enable impacts and results for their people and who have lived that journey, have lived that pain, that frustration or follow their curiosity and maybe a bit of both and found a new way of doing something better and they just really can wanna share people share it with others to save them the time and the heartache that they went through. It's really, I'm very grateful to work with them.
Joe Casabona: Awesome. I love that. Well, Charlotte, thank you so much for joining us today here at Kit Studios. Thank you again to Kit and Nathan. I'll link to Kit in the show notes as well. Rich, show notes today.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah, nice.
Joe Casabona: But thank you so much. I really appreciate you joining us.
Charlotte Crowther: Thanks. Awesome, Joe.
Joe Casabona: Yes. And thank you for listening or watching. If you're watching this to see the beautiful studio, I really appreciate it.
And until next time. I hope you find some space in your week.