Kinda feel like an imposter sometimes even being in this position as a business owner and someone who has to build a team because I just don't really know how to do that. I don't really care to, and that's probably not the best thing to say or to admit, but it's just not my thing. I'm not gonna be the CEO of a giant company - Joel Oliver
Joe Casabona: If you're anything like me, you probably think about ways you can appreciably scale your business. Part of streamlining, after all, is taking things off of your plate. That's why I brought on Joel Oliver. Joel is the editor for all of my podcasts, including this one. I've been with him since he was a freelance editor, and now he's grown to have a team of editors to help him work on more shows.
Listen in as we discuss structuring the business to stay a solopreneurship while bringing on more people, as well as creating processes to seamlessly hand off tasks to team members. We'll talk about everything from picking tasks to delegating to training those new team members. And if you're a member of Streamlined Solopreneur Accelerated, you'll learn a little bit about how the sausage gets made because I asked Joel specifically how he edits this show and who really edits this show.
Welcome to the Streamlined Solopreneur, a show for busy solopreneurs to help you improve your systems and processes so you can build a business while spending your time the way you want. I know you're busy, so let's get started.
Well, first, Joel, thanks for being here.
Joel Oliver: Appreciate the opportunity. It's cool to be on this side of things for a change.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Super exciting. People will get to see how the sausage gets made a little bit. And if you are a member of Streamlined Solopreneur Accelerated, we're gonna talk about kind of the editing process, why you should edit your podcast, and how the process for editing this show happens.
So, I do wanna dive in to the first question, though. When we first got together, you were flying solo, but you have grown to have a bigger team now. So, why did you decide to expand to a team?
Joel Oliver: I would say it's was sort of out of necessity and me not really knowing a whole lot about what was going on. I have a background in audio engineering, so anything on those terms, I know all about. But business, I had a little bit of an idea, but, really, in the grand scheme of things, not really. So as we just got busier and busier, I just thought, well, I don't know. What do I do? Maybe I should get someone to help. And, at that point and still, you know, to this day, what we rely on heavily, there are people who help us, it was the long form dialogue editing. So we actually don't do this with your show most of the time, but it's when you are going through, say, an hour episode and listening for umms and stumbles and things like that and tidying that up. These days, AI is kind of encroaching there, but at least when we were really starting out, there is no replacement for a person sitting there and doing that.
And, if say, an hour episode takes 2 or 2 and a half hours to edit, you can quickly see how it's not feasible for a single person to take on too big of a workload. So that was really the first problem that we encountered, and I love running a business that way. It's just dealing with problems as they appear. That was the first one. It was like, okay. I don't have any more hours in the day to do this stuff. How do I rectify that problem? And that was when I first brought someone on to help with the dialogue editing.
Joe Casabona: Love that. Yeah. You said that you like dealing with problems as they appear. I think this is really good advice because sometimes we let, maybe perfectionism or problems get in the way of progress. So you might think when you start a business, oh, well, what if this happens? I'm definitely guilty of that. Like, I say, oh, well, what if I get to this many people? This isn't scalable. And I spend too much time engineering a solution to a problem I'm likely not gonna have. So, I just wanna call that out. I think that's really good advice. Right? You started, and then when you realized that you needed to bring on extra help, you did.
Joel Oliver: Yes. That's a great point, and I've suffered from that as well because we don't have all the answers. Even if you're an entrepreneur who's somewhat experienced, you're still kind of guessing. Getting help like coaching, that's always useful, but they may not have all the exact answers either. So trying to deal with things just as they come up. And like you said, I don't want to build something now that ends up being a problem and I regret it down the line.
But then it's like, I'm trying to look 20 steps ahead, and then I can't get anything done because I just have to solve this little issue right now. Like, what productivity platform should I use? And then I spend hours and that's an important decision. But then I'm thinking later, well, what if I need to integrate this, or how does this work? And that really doesn't matter for maybe 5 years. So, But you don't wanna do something that does cause you problems later down the line, but, like we're saying, you don't always know the answer to that, and you can't get all hung up on and not do anything because of it. So you just try to make the best decision that you can.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. For sure. And that reminds me of you know, that GIF from Malcolm in the Middle, the dad played by Bryan Cranston, like, goes to I think it was changing a light bulb, and then, like, he couldn't find something and then or maybe it was like he was going to fix his car. He didn't have the right tool. He went to find the right tool until the light bulb was out. So he fixed the light bulb, but something broke. And it's just like a series of events where he tried to do something simple, and then, like, he ended up I think it was changing a light bulb, and he ended up, like, fixing his car. We don't wanna be in that situation as a business. Like, that's funny in a TV show, but we don't wanna be in that situation as a business owner because then we're gonna do things that are not especially in the early days, like, crucial to making us money, which you need to become profitable to focus on, you know, kind of some of the bigger picture problems anyway. So…
Joel Oliver: Yes. Yeah. And like I was saying, having mentorship or even a business partner or a group of people that you can talk to is always great. They don't have to be more experienced than you, but, say, my business partner, who is my brother, there's plenty of these situations where I'll just get so hung up. Like, well, I can't do this unless I do this, and what about this and then this? And I just wanted to do like you said, I just wanted to change a light bulb. I wanted to do something simple. But now I'm like, well, what about all these other things? And I'll go to him, and he'll just say, Joel, forget all that stuff. Here, go do this. Go do this. Go do this. Okay. Yeah. You're right. So, yeah. Having some other voice in your life to help keep you on track, I found very useful.
Joe Casabona: For sure. My mastermind groups have been so clutch for that because actually, just today as we record this, I was kind of asking them to talk me off a ledge. This is something that somebody else in the group also did, and we, like, pushed her off the edge, or the ledge. And it happened to me today. I was presented with a really good opportunity that I'm not really, I'm not ready to talk about yet. Joel, I'll tell you offline, or maybe I'll mention it in accelerated, for the members, which you can sign up over at [streamlined.fm/join] to get ad-free extended episodes early. So [streamlined.fm/join].
But I presented a question, and I thought, this sounds like a really good opportunity, but is it really right for me? So I had some limiting beliefs. And all of them were like, Joel, this was basically made for you. This was like a thing you need to do. So getting that outside perspective is so important.
In a couple of episodes ago when I talked about, like, reviewing my summer and how a kid like, having the kids at home and not in a summer camp went, I talked about how my business grew, and it's because I had that mastermind group guide like, guiding me along the way and helping me find clarity. So, even though I had less time this summer, I answered the right questions and got myself in front of the right people.
Joel Oliver: Yeah. That's fair. That's great. Those groups are excellent for that. I have no idea what your opportunity is, but something that came to mind there as you discussed it was something that I had faced before where I was looking too far for other opportunities when I didn't need to be. So, I don't think this is what's going on in your situation. We obviously want to assess an opportunity properly and take the right action, but for quite a while, while we had this business, instead of looking to grow this model and improve on what was already working, I tried to do different things. Like, I need other streams of income. I need to have a course. I need to do all this stuff. And I was, I started a whole coaching brand that I didn't put near as much effort into as I needed to, and I was saying, like, what do I do with this thing? And then I realized, hey. You know, we have a really successful business here as it is. Why are you not just working on that? So that's something that I've learned when I'm screening how to best spend my time, whether it's in this business or on other things. Make sure that it's the best use of your time and the best opportunity that is fitting for you or why you're even considering it in the 1st place. Don't, spread yourself too thin.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. For sure. I think this is a problem that a lot of solopreneurs, certainly freelancers I don't know. I kinda use them interchangeably. I feel like Freelancers was definitely, like, the 20 tens word or maybe, like, the early 2000 word. But, yeah, I think a lot of small business owners will say worry about this. Right? They're like, what happens if you need to scale or money dries up and feast or famine? Right? You have that one big client that leaves, but you don't wanna distract yourself from the core mission. Right?
I wound down a membership a few months ago that was just distracting me. Right? I was spending a couple of hours every Friday in a newsletter, and it was for like, 3 people. And I'm like, this isn't working. Right? And while I'm, I might be expanding out on this a little bit more in the near future, I'm doing it a different way now, a way that doesn't necessarily distract, and it has to be additive. Right? It has to support my core business in some way.
Joel Oliver: Right. Yeah. And we just don't always have those answers. Like we're saying, you can try to guess, try to get some help. You don't always know. But try your best to figure that out and not pass up on good opportunities or things that are good, but also not go down paths that you don't need to.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. For sure. I think that it's so easy to launch things these days that it's almost like ready, fire, aim. Like, I can launch this, and then I'll see if people want it. But I always say don't answer questions people aren't asking.
Joel Oliver: Yeah. It's just that makes me laugh thinking back to what I had done based on what you're saying there because I started this whole thing like a podcast coaching business. I made this big course, and I just, I never promoted it. I didn't do anything, and then no one bought it. And I just thought, okay. I don't know. I'm doing this wrong, and I just shut it down. Like, it just didn't have a hope. There's just no way that it could have ever gone anywhere. Like, no one knew about it, but I just gave up on it because no one bought it. It's just absurd things that we do. And that's how we get to where we are as entrepreneurs. Like, you have to make all these mistakes and learn, and then we come out and we're a success. And no one saw all that, the pain and trouble that we went through all those years.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. For sure. I wanna ask you a little bit about the structure of your business. You know, you mentioned you have a business partner. You mentioned that you made that first hire. I suspect you have more people working with you now. And so how do you structure your business? Is it employees? Is it contractors? Is it, like, a mix of both?
Joel Oliver: Mhmm. They're basically all contractors. The business partner is a different thing. But for us, that has worked the best. And I've learned it depends on the situation. There are pros and cons to how you do things. We heavily rely on our contractors for that long-form dialogue editing, like I mentioned. We have a couple of others, but for the most part, that's what they're doing.
And they are crucial to the business, but I have always felt uncomfortable giving a single person too much work. Because if they decide to leave or they need some time off or there's an emergency, then what am I gonna do? Because I cannot take all that work back on my own. It's just not possible. So, I've tried to spread it out a little amongst multiple people, but then you wanna watch that line where you're not giving them enough, and then they're not dedicated to you because they're not getting enough work. So that's been a balance that we've had to try to strike. But, essentially, those are the main people who help us out and are doing that long-form dialogue editing. We have a writer about to introduce a VA again to help with some newsletter stuff and some order management. But that's what the team looks like. It's 8 or 9 people most of the time.
And the reason that contractor worked the best for us was, yeah, we didn't wanna commit to too much. I don't wanna be responsible for having to make sure someone gets a paycheck if we didn't have work for them. Now, again, that's perhaps there are some downsides to that. Maybe you can't get people who are as dedicated to the business, but we've been lucky to find people and strike that balance who, you know, they're freelancers. They get it. They're happy to have what we can give them. They've been loyal to us.
There are complications too if you make someone an employee in terms of what you are responsible for additional costs. We're based out of Canada. If you have an employee, there are certain things you need to pay into the government, like employment insurance, all that type of stuff. I didn't want that headache as a business owner, and because we could do it that way, it just made the most sense to set it up that way.
So, yeah. It'll vary depending on a person's situation, but for us, that's how it looks. It's pretty much all contractor-based. And, most people, the way their tasks are assigned, they get a window of time to finish it. So they don't have to be online at any given time of the day with the exception of the VA and my business partner. Long as your work is done by your deadline, it's done well, we're pretty much hands-off. So I love that model. It works quite well for us.
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Joe Casabona: The work we're doing, like, most of it you know, you're not an employee of Good House Media, which is my LLC. Right? I send you the work when I have it. Sometimes there's more work. Sometimes there's less work. Now, you're doing a bunch of my shows, so, like, I suspect there's a pretty steady stream. But I also take most of December off, so, like, you can probably predict that I'm not gonna have a lot of stuff for you in December. In that regard, right, there's not the pressure of, oh, I need to make sure I'm getting them enough work or I'm not you know, I'm still pretty bootstrapped at this point. I don't wanna waste a ton of money. Not that, like, any money with you is wasted, but I don't wanna pay for stuff I'm not getting, if that makes sense.
Joel Oliver: Yeah. But that's when paying per project, let's say, makes a lot of sense because we're here when you need us. You don't have to worry about whatever problems or concerns would go along with an employee, not to make it sound negative, but, say that that burden on you to make sure they're getting a paycheck and they have enough work to do and taxes and all that stuff.
So, yeah. I don't envy anyone in that situation who has to make those decisions because it is a big leap if you haven't had an actual employee before and you're trying to make that step to have one, it's a big step and something that all of us entrepreneurs may have to deal with at some point. We're here making decisions, but all I can do is give my perspective on how we are doing things and what's worked for us, and then it would be up to whoever's listening to make the decision for themselves. Like, take in all that information and decide what model works best for you in your situation with your business. But for us, this has made the most sense.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. And I think you also definitely handled, like, what happens. Like, I had this question here. What happens if they leave? It sounds like because there's not this pressure to make sure someone has enough work, you're divvying up the work in a certain way. And if you're willing to share, I'd love to learn, you know, is it so when you edit my episodes, right, is there, like, a person that you usually send my episodes to, or is it, like, you know, Billy just got a project. So now, like, Jane is next in the queue?
Joel Oliver: I should probably have the goal to remove myself from the business more than I am. That's what you hear is, like, you know, free up your time, get everyone else to do the work. I take the quality of our work seriously, and I don't mind doing it. But I'm still heavily involved when it comes to the finalization of a lot of the episodes and especially for certain clients. So I've tried to streamline the business as much as possible so that it is able to be delegated to our team members. There are some that I'm not quite comfortable with doing that or it doesn't make sense to try to tell them, hey. In this one client situation, you gotta do it this way. So yours, I do all on my own. Unless we have an episode where I'm doing the advanced, like, the removal of the umms and going through it, that part would get delegated.
But, otherwise, I'm still I'm working on yours. There are plenty of clients I do that for. Or at the very least, I'm doing this finalization. So, we have the dialogue editing done, but I am in the center doing that mix like, the mix down we call it, finalizing the episode, putting the intro and outro, putting the pieces together. If it's a more complex episode, I'm definitely doing it. If it's a more simple one, like an intro and outro, I've got all the presets. So I set up these presets where they load it, and it always sounds the same. It's consistent.
Then the the team can handle it. Like, that's a beautiful system. But, otherwise, I'm involved. And even if they're doing things, I'm looking at it. We have checkpoints in place for, say, if we're writing the show notes or doing some other clips, well, we wanna have those checked over.
So, yeah. That's kinda how we delegate in the dialogue editing realm. It's pretty much like you said. We try to balance the level of work that they get, making sure they always have the same amount of projects. And this is where their speed and quality come into play because if I go to look to assign something and someone's got no currently assigned tasks, they'll be a high priority for another one. If someone's got a couple of projects they haven't completed already and they're gonna take 2 days to finish them, well, they're gonna end up with a slower, lower amount of work just because they're not at the ready when I go to assign something. So they kinda control their own adventure in a way, if we wanna call it that.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. And that's great. Right? They, first of all, I appreciate that you still edit my episodes. I don't, I wanna make clear that this is something that makes me happy, but I don't expect it because I do know you're growing a business. So thank you. I love your work, obviously, and I recommend most people to you, unless they want like that. There are some people who want, like, that highly, like, audio drama, which I don't think you do that line of work. Or do you?
Joel Oliver: No. And when we started to scale and I realized what I needed to do, there were a lot of clients that I just had to drop, or they were just giving me big lists of edits and stuff. And I just realized this is not scalable, and I cannot do these anymore.
And it was weird to turn away money, but it just made sense in the end. Like, it's okay to say this is the type of client that I wanna work with, and let's go find those. And you get some clients who you are able to serve really well with your team, with your business model, and everyone's happy.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Right. It's like I will go to a diner, and I will expect great pancakes. I will expect a great burger. If they have sushi on the menu, I'm not touching that. Diner sushi is not something I'm there for. Right? And it's the same in your business. Right? Like, you are great. You could do certain things. Right? I have people come to me, and they're like, could you produce my podcast? And I'm like, I could. I would do a bad job. Right? Or I wouldn't do as good a job as somebody else does. My wheelhouse is x, y, and z. And if you can differ like, this is what makes you a differentiator. Right? And it's also understanding why people come to you. Because if you're like, oh, I just can do everything, then it's like, well, given the choice between the someone who does a bunch of things okay and somebody who does one thing really well, I'm gonna pick the person who does one thing really well. So I think that's really smart.
Joel Oliver: Yeah. And I'm not necessarily correct in some of my viewpoints here, but I just know how I feel, and that's driven how we run the business. In some situations, you may want, say, sort of a bigger company impression behind something. And in some cases, you might wanna work directly with a person. More so, I do almost all the communication of the business. If it's not me writing the email, it's my assistant, but I'm still involved. I still know what's going on. I want that when I go work with people, and I think a lot of the people we work with have that same expectation.
I really don't like it if I go work with a company and I say I wanna work with you, Joe, and I like your content, I like what you're doing, And I go to buy your coaching package, and then some other guy shows up on the coaching call. Well, yeah, can't really scale if you're trying to show up on all those calls, but, also, in your business, I wanted to work with you. So to just be handed off and then, ah, the work I've seen this before. Like, the work quality is not really what I wanted. Where did Joel go? Someone else is doing I just don't like dealing with businesses like that, and so that's how we've modeled ours.
I know I should probably take some advice to get out of the business a little more and scale it a little better, but I'm just not comfortable with it. I wanna be here, and I want to be able to serve the clients. So, I'm always trying to figure that out, like, how to best do that. But I'm not hiring someone to take my sales calls. I'm doing those. I wanna know what's going on. I wanna meet people. That's just how I'm doing things, and maybe it's limiting us. I don't know. But I don't wanna do it any other way.
Joe Casabona: I agree wholeheartedly. Like, somebody asked me a few years ago at a conference I go to, like, how would you remove yourself from your business. And I said, I wouldn't. Right? Like, I just, I like doing the work I'm doing. And, sure, I probably won't be a millionaire someday, but, like, I get to do work I love to do and then spend time with my family. Because this is the other thing. Right? If I removed myself from my business and I had a bunch of employees, how far do I have to remove myself from the business to, like, not have to worry about the employees too? Right? Like, I have clients who understand my situation, and so I could say, like, hey. I got a sick kid. I gotta push our meeting, and they'll be like, yeah. I understand. I don't want the people who are like, what if I need something at 10 PM? Right? I know the people I work with, and the people know my situation. And that's very important to me. And I don't know that I'd have that without if I removed myself from my business.
Joel Oliver: Yeah. Absolutely. And I agree with that. I've tried to be a little more like, have more boundaries in terms of when I'm available as well. But, typically, most of the people we work with, they're cool like that too. If there's an emergency, I'm always watching the inbox just in case, you know, something could pop up we need to take care of. I wanna see that.
But, people we work with, they have their workday, and they're kinda done, and I should do that as well. It's something I've struggled with is I always wanna be available, but it's okay. If it's not an emergency, they're there tomorrow. So have that boundary.
And I don't really look at competition too much, but I, you know, I've seen a bit of it over the years. And some people are just serial entrepreneurs. Like, this is what they are good at. They're good at building a business, and they build it from the start. They might not have any idea about podcast editing or audio editing or anything. They just know how to build a business and put the right people in place to do it. That's not me. I am the audio guy. I wouldn't wanna work with that, and maybe some people do. But…
Joe Casabona: They could have picked anything, and they just picked this because it seemed profitable. It almost, it feels a little bit opportunistic, and there's like, a little bit of stink to that.
Joel Oliver: Yeah. Maybe I'm up on my throne here or something saying it. I'm not sure how it comes across. It just how I feel. Like, I would wanna find a guy like you or myself. I wanna work with them versus someone who started a company. They don't know anything about audio editing. They just started it. They have a team. The person you talk to on the phone is not the one who edits. That's fair. There's a market for it. It's just not how I am gonna run things. So for better or worse, that's just how I do things, and, you know, it is what it is.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. And, I mean, we're in full agreement here. I actually had somebody ask, like, if I buy a coaching call with you, am I getting you? And I thought that was like, such a crazy question.
Joel Oliver: Mhmm.
Joe Casabona: I'm like, yeah. Is there a situation and, like, there are. Right? Like, I mean, Pat Flynn is removing himself from his business more or less. And I know a bunch of people who are like, they're the face, but they're not the coach. And I think that's not for me. Right? If I tell you I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it. Yeah.
Joel Oliver: Yeah.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Joel Oliver: These are probably challenges that are the best guys at delegating and owning a business would be able to deal with these. They wouldn't be kind of stuck in the mindset that I am and maybe you, if you wanna call it stuck. But it's really difficult to find anyone that will care about your business as much as you. Like, if we're able to say, look at an email at 10 PM, not that we want to, but there's an emergency, I gotta hop on and deal with that. If you're hiring someone to do your business stuff, they're gonna kinda work 8 to 5. They're just not as invested as you, and I want that level of service. So that's another thing that I think about when it comes to that.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. For sure. And speaking of, I think that's a perfect segue to the actionable advice side of things. Right? How do you pick tasks to delegate? How do you put a system in place? How do you train your contractors? Right? I think that this is, there's a lot of, I just threw a bunch of we'll take it 1 by 1, but this is, like, the stuff I wanna cover, right, in the actionable advice. I share this story that when I first hired my VA, there was definitely a learning curve where I would just tell her to do something and expect her to do it, but, like, that's not the level of VA that I hired. Right? And so I learned how to best show her the tasks I'm doing and what tasks I could delegate to her.
So how do you I guess, let's start with how did you pick what tasks to delegate, and then we'll move into the system that you put in place for it.
Joel Oliver: I'd say let's talk about the audio, and the dialogue editors, and we could chat a bit about my VA experience as well.
The dialogue editors are fairly straightforward because it's a, there's a bit of an art to it in terms of your skill level at doing it properly. But, otherwise, I can show you this list of requirements. Like, here's what follows these steps. This is what you need to do. Get the file here. Put it back here. That's it. So it's pretty simple in that regard. Finding the right people for it. it's not just anyone that can do it because I have a certain level of quality I want to hear, and not everyone meets that. So we've had to find the right people who are okay with the deadlines. They're available when we want them. They're able to actually do the work properly. So it was obvious to me that we needed to delegate that task, and then the system is largely focused around the actual workflow. Once I show them, this page of requirements, they get what we, what they need to do, and then they get the tasks assigned to them. They know where to get the files, where to upload them, that sort of thing. So that's pretty straightforward. Like dealing with any human, this is an interesting thing.
I do check-in. So I do, like, a monthly. I let it slide for a while longer sometimes, but a monthly check on the work. Just let me go through and review this and see how it's sounding. I think that's crucial to keeping quality in check. Sometimes I'll just discover things and go say, hey. You know, this could have been done a little differently or this wasn't that great. I don't wanna say this in a negative way, but I think if you just let things slide or there's no accountability or you're never watching, in my experience anyway, that's the disclaimer I'll put in my experience, people will just maybe get a little lazier or things just start to slip a little bit because they just don't think that anyone's watching or that maybe, this I'm saying this from my own like, before I had my own business, I would be this way in work. So, like, no one's really holding me accountable to the standard, and it's just perhaps a natural tendency to let things slip a bit. So that's one of the ways I've made sure of that is I wanna check in with them, see how they're doing, make sure everything's okay.
So the system for those people is relatively simple, and then just some accountability there. Really, I do like working with self-starters and people who are motivated on their own. I don't personally do any of this, like, team-building stuff. I just like to let people do their thing. You gotta wanna work. We'll pay you. So do a good job, you know, and you're free other than that, and I, that's been working for us with the right people in place.
Joe Casabona: I think that's really important. Right? First of all, like, yeah, if there's a problem, like, don't let it fester. Right? I shared in the preshow that, you know, I learned in one of the organizations I've worked for or currently work for that they built like, they told me explicitly how much, like, slip time they build in, and that was just like, the worst thing they could have done because now I…
Joel Oliver: Right.
Joe Casabona: I basically look at my deadline and add 2 or 3 weeks to it. Right? And I know, like, oh, well, I actually have this wiggle room. And I never knew that, and so I would always hit my deadline. But now sometimes I'm like, well, I can deprioritize this a little bit because I know the real deadline is different. And, you know, that's I don't like that spot, and I hate that I know that. And I think if they came back to me and they're like, hey. We got rid of the wiggle room for you because you always hit your deadlines. I'd be like, all right. Okay. Cool. And, well, now I know this is like, my deadline now. So, right. I think you're right in that when there's something that needs to be fixed, it's better to fix it as soon as possible.
Joel Oliver: Yes. And so something that just popped up that I think is valuable to share because I want other people out there like me to know this, it just reminded me of the saying, what you can't fix, you feature.
I watch all these people online, like CEOs and business leaders, and they're talking about how to motivate your team and do this and make people feel it's just not me. I understand it's important, but it's not me. And I kinda feel like an imposter sometimes even being in this position as a business owner and someone who has to build a team because I just don't really know how to do that. I don't really care to, and that's probably not the best thing to say or to admit, but it's just not my thing. I'm not gonna be the CEO of a giant company and able to get everyone motivated and on the same page. I can't, I don't really, I just don't know how to do that. So, I need these people who are, like, they're they're self-starters. They're kind of entrepreneurial-minded in their own way.
Our contractors, so we give them the work. They do a good job. They get it done. They don't need a lot of babysitting from me. So I wouldn't be able to step into, say, any company necessarily or give advice on how to run a team because I just don't know. Although, I know there's a lot to it. I'm not one of these inspirational leaders giving a TED Talk. It's just like, here's what I've done. So my point here is if whoever's listening feels this way, like, that's not really you, well, I've made it work in this way. So, maybe it's not a good thing, but I have been able to make a go of it, and things are fine.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I am busy with a million things. And so if I hire a contractor right? This is why I liked working with you. This is why I liked working with my former video editor when he was like, editing courses for me. I give you guys a task, and I know it's gonna get done. I don't have to handhold or motivate you. Right? Like, you're, all self-starters. Right? And that's if you need that, then you need that. Right?
Now, what you give up, right, is maybe a little bit of the sway you have over that person. Right? You're gonna hire a self-starter, and they're gonna have some agency and do it a certain way. And, yeah, they're gonna work within your, like, within the way you do things, but they're also gonna bring their own flair to it. Right? Whereas if you need somebody that you need to motivate and mold, then you probably have a little bit more control over how they do things and having them do it your way. I think that's mostly been my experience, at least.
Joel Oliver: Maybe we could talk about the VA portion of this as well since we're on this subject if we wanna if we have time to go into that a little in terms of what I've done there.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Joel Oliver: Because we did have a VA, and I guess this, that's one of the downsides of not having a full-time employee. You're trying to do your best in terms of screening the right person and not wasting anyone's time.
So we had one for a while, and she was working out pretty well. Some little mistakes here and there, but that's kinda to be expected. But, initially, she had told me, hey. I'm doing this other job, and I'm a student, but I've got time for another, I've got more hours in the week, so I'd like to do something. And sure enough, I should have seen this coming maybe 3 or 4 months into this thing. I got her all on board. She was trained. I'm too busy. I'm getting stressed out. I can't handle all this workload. So she went on her way. And, you know, as a small business, that's like, that's a big kick because it was a lot of time invested. I could have hired someone else. But, you know, you learn from everything.
So right now, we are working on bringing on a new VA because I think it's that time again. And to go back to what I was saying about not having all the answers, I don't have all the answers when it comes to systematizing or figuring out exactly what needs to be delegated. I'm just learning as I go and trying to, like we said, talk to people in the community, do some research, build systems for necessary things, not build out detailed systems for things that don't matter. But…
Joe Casabona: Mhmm.
Joel Oliver: Things I don't enjoy doing, that's like, number 1 that I'm trying to give to her. And then, also, I wanna learn from an experienced VA because I wanna build our systems in a way that works for her and for, perhaps a future VA. Tell me how I can best help you rather than me just trying to make it up and do it, and then it doesn't make any sense to her. So we're on that track right now of bringing someone else on who is gonna be an asset to our business and has some experience that can help us build that portion of things because it's still relatively new, having someone help there.
Joe Casabona: That's so smart. That's so smart. Same thing with my VA. Like, I've had her basically build out SOPs for everything she's done. There's a handbook now. So if she does leave, at least I have a list of like, each task and then every step to do that task. And now with my VA, I do, she's out in the Philippines, but I do pay her a living wage, like, no matter how many hours she works. It's because she's in the Philippines, I can make those finances work. Like, I wouldn't be able to pay somebody a living wage here in the US, but Right. I think it's a win-win. Right? Because it's like, I'm paying her, like, almost triple the hourly rate she gave me. I wanna make sure that she's happy and fulfilled, because, I mean, if she does leave, there's gonna be like, a week of chaos while or more while I try to replace her.
So I think as we come up to the end of the main show here, I want to get some actionable advice as you know. So I wanna focus this around letting go. Like, what's a mindset thing that solopreneurs can do to let go of some of those tasks they don't need to do?
Joel Oliver: Mhmm. Well, the attitude that I have to do everything and no one else can do it as good as me is almost always incorrect, especially if it's not something you specialize in. You really should be looking for ways to free up time and get professionals to work with you. But just letting go of that attitude that I have to do all this on my own. Because I see this a fair bit, it just doesn't make sense. Like, I even see it from entrepreneurs who are doing quite well for themselves, and they'll have this mindset that they should be trying like, they're trying to costs or you know, I just had a situation the other day where I gave someone a quote for something we do. And he's, like, a fairly big business that they've got bigger than mine even. And, you know, wasn't even that much, and he said, well, I'll probably try to just learn that on my own. And I said, not to be condescending, but you, I'm sure, have 30 other important things to be doing in the run of a day. I already do this. Why is that even an option for you to do? So letting go of that attitude.
And then, also, this is something I've experienced and I've had to tell other people, letting go of this perfectionist attitude, and that goes hand in hand. Maybe someone that you hire can't do it a 100% as well as you did. But if they could do it, like, 95% and you free up a bunch of time, can we live with that? Is there really a difference at the end of the day? And I've dealt with this a lot with podcasters who insisted on editing their own stuff. They were hesitant to hand it off. Said, listen. I get it. I feel the same way, but, really, you're spending 3 hours on that to make it maybe 5% better than it's gonna be if you let someone else do it. Does it really matter? Does anyone really notice? Is it really making a difference? You need to just let that go, and I promise you, you're gonna be much better off for having that extra time freed up that you can go do something that really matters.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Agree wholeheartedly. Like, that's the nonnegotiables in my business for the things I do are client calls and coaching, obviously. But then writing, I'm not outsourcing writing. Like, maybe I think too much of myself here, but I think I'm a very good writer. And I'm confident that most freelance writers will not write if not as well as me, because I'm not saying I'm the best writer that's ever lived. I write in a certain way, and freelance writers I've tried to hire have not captured that way. Certainly, AI is not gonna cut it. But, I mean, it's like that and then, like, talking. Right? Like, the pod like, the actual recording of a podcast. Those are the non-negotiables. Everything else, I've either outsourced, or I can be convinced to outsource, because I think that my time is really valuable. And if I'm focusing on the most important things, everything else will fall into place, and that's how you make more money as a solopreneur.
Joel Oliver: Yeah. And depending on where you are in your journey, it's gonna affect what you are able to do. Like, do I have no money but lots of time? Okay. You can do some more of those things. But once you have a lot of money and little time, you really, you need to understand. And there's gonna be that middle ground where maybe you don't feel like you have enough of either. But, yeah, that's a huge consideration. Especially once you hit a certain level, you should not be wasting time on trivial things.
And I love that you had that very clear list of the non-negotiables. I'm gonna make one of those now. I think that's a very useful thing for everyone else to see it for themselves. What should I actually not be doing? For whatever reason, I don't enjoy it. I'm not good at it. It just takes too much time. Whatever your motivations and reasons are, think about those and make that list. And whatever you don't need to be doing, get that off your plate.
Joe Casabona: One of the first things I had my VA do was publish my podcast to my website. It's a WordPress website, so she's not just uploading it to my audio host. I have a lot of custom code in that website from my web development days. There's no way anybody else is gonna understand this. Guess what? With the screen recording, everybody can understand it. Right? Like, I'm gonna do this and then you do that. Right? So I think, like, definitely get rid of that belief that, like, not everybody can do it as well as I can. By and large, most people can do a lot of the things that you do as well as you can. Right? Maybe it's your opinions and life experiences that they won't be able to do as well as you, but publishing a website, editing, or even writing, that's a nonnegotiable for me, but for most people, it's not. You know, other people can do it as well.
Joel Oliver: Yeah. Yeah. Great point too about the, it doesn't sound like you. If it's someone else, I've had the same I've tried to outsource it, and it's like I get the same newsletter back that I've seen from 500 other people. I don't wanna sound like that, but I don't like writing. So, that's for another day, but I'm glad that it's working for you to do your own stuff.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Yeah. Joel, this has been great. We're over time. But if people wanna learn more about you, where can they find you?
Joel Oliver: [eastcoaststudio.com] will be the best. That's got all-encompassing, got my social media, some freebies. So [eastcoaststudio.com], go there.
Joe Casabona: Nice. That and everything we talked about, I'll have, like, an affiliate link to Descript or Descript. I met the Descript team at Podcast Movement, and I'm like, how do you pronounce it? And they're like, literally, there's no internal guidance on this. So however you wanna say it is fine. So, like, the owner changes the way he says it from time to time. I'm like, all right. Good to know. But, anyway, all of those links will be over at [streamlined.fm/433]. That's [streamlined.fm/433]. If you wanna get every episode longer and earlier and ad freer, you can become a member also over at [streamlined.fm/433].
But, Joel, thanks so much for spending some time with us today. Really appreciate it.
Joel Oliver: Thank you.
Joe Casabona: Thank you for listening. Thanks to our sponsors. And until next time, I'll see you out there.