Joe Casabona: When I started seeing my therapist again, she asked me a very pointed question. Has anybody ever talked to you about ADHD? And I took a moment, and I said, probably not in the way you're going to talk to me about it. And we had a long conversation, and I didn't really follow up, because I wasn't sure. Right? I think that I may demonstrate some aspects of ADHD, when it comes to a kind of distraction, but also then getting like that deep focus on trying to solve a problem. But there are some things that today's guest mentioned that I don't feel I have, like, time blindness or, kind of, losing track of time and travel times, the working memory stuff. So it's possible.
But what I do know is that the things that Skye talked about today, the processes she has put in place to help people with ADHD be more productive and run a better business. That stuff really resonated with me. I think that brain-friendly systems for professionals who want to do it all is, as she said, not just something for people with ADHD, but it's for people who the conventional productivity tips may not resonate with. And so I think that there are a lot of really great things in this conversation. I'm really excited for you to hear it. Skye's system is just fantastic, and I'm glad to finally talk about this topic on the show.
So I'd love to hear your feedback on it, by the way, write in at [streamlinedfeedback.com], to let me know what you think. You can find all of the links in the description and the show notes for this episode, but I really wanna get into the interview. So without further ado, here is my interview with Skye Waterson.
Welcome to the Streamlined Solopreneur, a show for busy solopreneurs to help you improve your systems and processes so you can build a business while spending your time the way you want.
I know you're busy, so let's get started.
Alright. I am here with Skye Waterson. Skye is an ADHD strategist, coach, and founder of Unconventional Organisation. Skye, how are you today?
Skye Waterson: I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.
Joe Casabona: Thanks so much for coming on the show. I'm really excited about this. This is, you are the first kind of ADHD subject matter expert, I would say, that I've had on the show. And since shifting to focusing on processes and systems, I think your pitch came at the perfect time. By the way, for those listening, Skye pitched the show perfectly. So, well, I don't accept, I don't accept many, but this one was like a lock. I was like, this is great.
So we're gonna talk about, we're, like, ushering a new era of interview here at the Streamlined Solopreneur, where we're gonna focus on case studies for solopreneurs, like solopreneurs who have built specific systems, why they did it, and how it's helped them. But this is our prologue, we'll say. Right? Because you're gonna talk to us about, kind of, you know, unconventional systems, brain-friendly systems for professionals who want to do it all.
So, let's start with a question I don't normally ask, but I think it's important to establish in your own words is, tell us a little bit about who you are and the kind of work that you do.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. So my name's Skye. I live in New Zealand but mostly work with the US, and I essentially help people who are business owners or executives who are managing their ADHD to do that successfully. Like, I found out that I had ADHD for myself when I was starting my PhD, which is a really unusual time to find out you have ADHD, but I had crashed around to get to that space, you know, I was doing well and then I wasn't doing well and so I was trying to figure it out and so I thought if I'm gonna do a PhD, I'm gonna have to figure out what's going on.
I went to my university's learning center and, yeah, they tested me for a couple of hours, and then they said we think you should get tested for ADHD, and I had taught ADHD and autism as part of development in university. That was how much we didn't talk about the idea that it could be in adults. So it was a huge shift for me and really threw my whole research journey and just life journey on a totally different path.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. That's really interesting. My friend was actually recently diagnosed as an adult, and something that she mentioned that could be your experience too is that ADHD is something that really, like, helps in early school like early education. And once you get to, like, college, where it's less structured or university, where it's less structured, it could really show itself. Was that kind of your experience as well?
Skye Waterson: Yeah. I was your classic like highly masking. I was like, I'm pretty sure everyone else is just working on weekends and evenings and making really intense schedules that they completely throw away by Tuesday. I think everyone else is just lying about how much work this is and so it made a lot of sense for me to then, you know, continue in academia because the idea of trying to figure out the job market was a whole other thing especially when I graduated which was around the same time as the recession and so it was, you know, I was just gonna keep in university, keep going, become an academic, but, but that journey, yeah, it definitely had its own struggles. And in some ways, I think it's one of the reasons I ended up in entrepreneurship, because you had to learn how to run your own projects.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. That’s that again, that's really interesting. I shared a little with you in the kind of pre-interview, like, green room thing.
Skye Waterson: Mhmm.
Joe Casabona: But, you know, my therapist has asked me if I've been, if someone talked to me about ADHD. And one of the things that she keyed in on was that I, she asked if I had a problem with authority. And I would say I don't think I have a problem with authority. I just have a problem with seemingly arbitrary and capricious rules, and so I feel like that's part of the reason that I became an entrepreneur, right, is that I need to do my own thing, and I need a good reason why if you're gonna make me do something, which frustratingly, my kids, not frustrating for me, but good for them, they've gotten that from me.
Skye Waterson: So Similar. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I think it'll do well, but it's really biting me as a parent. Cool.
Okay. So, you were diagnosed at university. And so, what was maybe the first thing you started to do to build the systems, right? Like maybe you can give us a little, like, what was life like before systems that I assume led you to seek this diagnosis, and then what did you start to do after to help yourself?
Skye Waterson: Yeah. So the systems that I had before, I would consider them to be everything in the kitchen sink. You know, I was dragging. I was very focused on productivity. I was always very obsessed with it, but I would just bring in everything. Like, oh, that worked one time. I should totally do it. And it was leading to a lot of the burnout that I was experiencing, which kinda led me to get the diagnosis in the first place. What I found, you know, immediately, because this was my background, I started doing two things.
I created a postgraduate community for other people who had ADHD. I wanted to learn from other people, and I also started researching. I had access to a lot of academic research.
And then what really started the business, honestly, is I started writing articles to help myself stay accountable. I started writing articles or blogs on a website about ADHD and what I was learning, and I referenced them because I couldn't help it. Even today, you know, it has to have a reference in it and so, you know, that, you know, I used to post those on Facebook. They did really well at the time. I was the kind of the only person doing that, really. And I started to bridge that gap between, you know, very esoteric neuroscience papers and practical strategies for myself initially and then for other people.
Joe Casabona: That's great. And you mentioned that you entered the job market around the recession, so I'm clocking you as around the same age as me. I graduated from college in ‘07, got my master's in ‘09. And so, I love the kind of blogging. I really miss that blogging was, like, the primary way.
Skye Waterson: It was a thing. You could literally write an article, put it on Facebook, and then thousands of people would read it.
Joe Casabona: Right. Yeah. Like or, like, they like, where I could, like, tweet a link and people would actually click it. Right? Like, that was nice. I hope we're coming back to that. I think we are.
Skye Waterson: Substack's doing pretty well.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Substack is I'm writing more over on Substack, actually. So, and then also, I just gotta say this. Like the references, I wrote a web development book back when I was a Web Developer full-time, and one of the notes from my editor was that you are citing too many sources. And I'm like, that's crazy to me. What do you mean? I'm so…
Skye Waterson: How would you know everything came from?
Joe Casabona: Yeah. They're like, you're the expert. And I'm like, I'm the expert because of these people, though. So, we inserted more of my thoughts and just kinda cited, like, the big picture stuff. But I think that's probably I taught at the college level for a long time, so, like, academia was just kind of like deeply embedded in me.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. It gets in your bones.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Absolutely. And so, okay. So you started to do… now, I feel like I'm all over the place. But I think something that a lot of solopreneurs, business owners, maybe just productivity nerds, struggle with is, like, shiny object syndrome. I can tell my friend knows. It's like clockwork. Every six months, I'll tell him I'm looking at a new task manager.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Joe Casabona: And so, is this like, is this something that you think about and work with? Are you, do you try to stick to the same tool set?
Skye Waterson: Yeah. So what I've developed, and I think this is kind of unique, is I've developed a task, an app-agnostic system. So it's a system. It's not about how you use it, although there are some strategies and systems that are very not friendly for an unconventional brain. I could talk about that if you want. But the systems that I've developed, you can use them if you're a paper person, if you're using Notion, if you're using, you know, ClickUp, you can use them across different platforms because people had such different perspectives and I never found and still haven't found there's something that really fits everything, especially now. Things change so fast.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, I would actually love to hear a little bit about, like the, what did you say? Some of the things that maybe don't work as well or, like, so I'll tell you, like I really wanted to like Things 3, if we're talking specifically about task managers right now. I really wanted to like Things 3, and I just found myself going back to Todoist because it's like, more flexible or whatever. But I know we don't wanna get into the nitty gritty, but that stuff is very curious to me or is very interesting to me, I should say.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. So the biggest struggles, you know, obviously, if you have ADHD, you struggle with impulsivity, distraction, that kind of thing, but then you struggle with executive functioning, which honestly gets like a tiny mention, but it's a huge impact on people's lives. So that's working memory, time blindness, transition times, those kinds of pieces.
And so when you're looking at a task manager, the one I always say first is you're you know those people have those tiny little paper diaries that's just enough space to write doctor's appointment, you know, doctor 12 PM and that's it. And they live their life by those little diaries? That is the most un ADHD friendly thing you could humanly do.
So, it's sort of moving back from there. We need space. We need to write down everything. We're gonna forget it if we don't. We need to be able to access it super quickly. Like, don't make me click three buttons to find one thing, or I'm gonna lose the thing. And we need to be able to see it across time. Like, okay, that's cool. It's a Wednesday, but, like, what does Wednesday look like? You know, what happens in the morning? What happens in the evening? Travel time. We need that kind of visual ability to see what's going on.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. That's super interesting. I think that's, yeah. I mean, I guess, like, in my own experience, like, my iPad is right over here, and it's got, like, the calendar and Todoist. I often think about, like, Obsidian because it's, like, super you're not…
Skye Waterson: I tried it.
Joe Casabona: Obsidian is I tell people Obsidian is great for web developers because it’s like…
Speaker C: It's like, yeah. Mhmm.
Joe Casabona: But I misspoke. I actually meant OmniFocus because that's, like, really customizable as a task manager. But, for me, I find, like, with those tools, I spend more time customizing than actually using. So I definitely need to be reeled in, probably because I'm a developer and I can do a lot of that stuff. Oh, I can, and so I need to be put in a box. But that's really interesting to me. My brother has one of those diaries. I'm like, just it's always in his back pocket, and he always just kinda references it.
Skye Waterson: Pulls it out. 3 PM appointment. No notes about what it is or where it is. It's not fun.
Joe Casabona: That's awesome. So with this context, let's talk about building your system. How, so, you did a bunch of research, some focus groups. You blogged a lot. You… it sounds like you gathered way more data than I would ever gather to do anything. I'm like a ready, fire, aim kind of guy, probably. But, so how did you choose, come up with, build this system?
Skye Waterson: Yeah. So I essentially initially, what I did was I once I read the research on it, so there's research into things like dopamine transfer deficit, which indicates that we don't get the same dopamine boost when we start a task. Like, that's super helpful for me when I'm teaching people how to actually do tasks that are super boring.
Joe Casabona: And when you say I'm sorry. When you say we, do you mean folks with ADHD or human beings in general?
Skye Waterson: Oh, I mean, folks with ADHD.
Joe Casabona: Okay. Cool. Cool.
Skye Waterson: If I'm talking about folks who don't have ADHD, I'll usually say neurotypical, just to…
Joe Casabona: Oh, oh, interesting. Okay. Cool. Good to know.
Skye Waterson: Thanks. But, but, yeah. So, when I looked at that information, the first thing, obviously, I did because I was in academia doing my PhD, I used it on myself. I tested it, see if it works, and then from there, you know, I was working with one-on-one clients. I work with less one-on-one clients now. I mostly have a coaching program, but you know, I still have one-on-one clients because I'm always working with them. If it's helpful, I'll bring it in. We'll test it. We'll see what works.
And so I was able to use that to say, okay, I've done the research. I've tried it on myself. It's worked. I've tested it on numerous other people with different backgrounds who have ADHD. It's worked for them as well. And then it became one of the sort of eight programs and processes that I teach.
So I don't teach, like, a million tips, which is one of the things people like about my UO system. It's not like, do this and also this and don't forget this and you should try this, because that just gets as overwhelming as anything else.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. For sure. I think that's like, oh my gosh. What's the term for it, generally? Analysis paralysis. Right? Like, you tell somebody to do a bunch of things, and they're like, Which one should I start with? Cool. I really like that. And then, I guess to to, just to to make it clear, like, I forget now if we said this before we started recording, but these systems can also work for, like, neurotypical folks. Right?
Skye Waterson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. They can work for people. I mean, they're mostly related to executive functioning. Executive functioning struggles occur if you have head trauma, if you have mental health struggles, if you have, you know, a whole bunch of issues. So it generally will work for people who just feel like the normal systems aren't working for them.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I this, I think one of the like, the impetus for me, like, going in the direction I started going in was I have we, you know, we have three we have three small children.
Skye Waterson: Mhmm.
Joe Casabona: And I wanna be present for them. And my wife's a nurse, so she has a nontypical work schedule, and I'm self-employed, so I have a nontypical work schedule. And, you know, I think things just got not rigid enough for me, and I felt my brainpower going in too many different directions at once.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: You know, thinking about the kids or if it's, like, really noisy upstairs or
Skye Waterson: Mhmm.
Joe Casabona: Just a million things we have to do. And so I definitely felt a market change when I had kids, so it sounds like some of this stuff would be super helpful for me.
Skye Waterson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the things that I focus on, I mean, what I teach are how to focus, how to get your time back, and then how to get consistent revenue. Those are the three spaces, and most people come to me because they're just in that I don't even know what to do. I'm running a business, but I literally spent you know, I have people who are running very successful businesses who are like, don't tell anyone, but I spent today refreshing my email. Like, that's kind of the general energy that people come to me with.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Yeah. Gosh. I really resonate with that. My yearly theme is the year of being present because I wanna try to be like, I'll be on a Zoom call, and I'll get bored, and I'll go over here, and I'll check my email or whatever. And, like, I don't wanna do that. Right? I wanna be present, so I'm not like, what did wait. I'm sorry. What did you say? Yeah.
Okay. Cool. We've been talking a lot about the system. What's the name of the system and walk like, walk us through it.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Yeah. So let's start with the first one. So the whole program is called Unconventional Organizational, UO. That's the program that I teach. And the first thing, you know, and I actually give this away. You guys can just message me on Instagram. You can message me streamlined. Otherwise, I won't give it to you.
Joe Casabona: Nice.
Skye Waterson: And, and then, you know, one of the things that we focus on is, okay, what is the most urgent task that I need to do right now? What is truly urgent? Because I've had people, you know, whether they're making their first thousand or their, you know, second million, and they swear up and down that they have 200 tasks to do today, most people have under five truly urgent tasks and so I have as a very quick and simple system that I teach that works across all the different platforms we've talked about to help you understand what those are. So I can take you through that now if you'd like.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Yeah. That would be great. This is first of all, I love you're saying this because I had a boss in my last real “person job,”, where, like, he basically said, you like, three things you will do three things today. That's all I expect you to do. When you do them, let me know sort of thing.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Yeah. It is kinda like that except as our own bosses, we have to be the person who picks those three things. And what people tend to find is if they don't use something like the system, they will not do the thing because they'll be like, oh, maybe it's not truly urgent.
So the first thing you do is you go ahead and you just brain dump all of the tasks that are in your head. So don't go to your old task list. Don't use this opportunity to, like, pull up your email. Like, just focus on what's in your head, what's cluttering up your working memory, and write those things down. And I've seen people do this for, like, ten minutes without stopping. It's amazing what's in our brains once we get started.
And then from there, what you're gonna do is you're gonna go ahead and you're gonna identify, okay, what needs to be done today or there will be a significant external negative consequence of it not being done tomorrow. So there will be a podcast that I'm not prepared for, or there will be a bill that I haven't paid, or my kid will be like, hey, you're supposed to pick me up, like, what is happening? Like, that makes it urgent and a negative consequence. I'll feel bad. I said I would, but they don't care. These things don't make it truly urgent. We might still get to it, but we need to know if we had an emergency day, we had to leave the office, go do something else, what would we still have to do on our phones before we closed up for the day? Like, that's the information that we need.
Joe Casabona: That's such great framing. Like, that's because you're right in that you can look at your old task list or check your email, and then new things get added, and they seem more urgent because they're newer until you do them, maybe.
This is something that something that's really helped me is, at the end of my day, usually, when I'm going to get my kiddos, I use an app called WhisperMemo to just, like, word vomit into that, and I talk at it for they just the developer just made it so that you can talk for ninety minutes, which is a lot. That's too long. Yep. But I'll talk for, like, three to seven minutes about just everything I'm thinking about. And I now send that to via Zapier to chatGPT, and I have it make a list of the tasks it hears and put them in my inbox in Todoist like that.
Skye Waterson: Love that.
Joe Casabona: Because otherwise, I'm just, like, I'm not present with my kids. I'm thinking about the stuff that I didn't do or that I have to do.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. I love that.
Joe Casabona: Cool. Alright. Cool. I love this. So write everything in your brain down and think about the consequences of not doing those things.
Skye Waterson: Exactly. And yeah, and also unconventional organization if you want the whole process. I will give it to you because I want you to have this.
Joe Casabona: Yes. Awesome.
Skye Waterson: And then the next thing that you wanna do is you wanna go, okay, now that we've gone through what's urgent, what's important? Because that's where it becomes really interesting. What is the what we talk about is the 80/20. If we know a goal, if we know the direction, if you're a business owner, you're usually your goal is like, what are we doing? Like, work-life balance money combo. Are we going for this year? And so that goal, we need to understand what is the piece of your business right now that's truly moving you closer to that. What if you focused on it would really ramp it up and help you grow much faster? There's all the shiny stuff. There's always the shiny stuff, and then there's the stuff that's actually working currently that we wanna focus on. So that usually what I'll get people to do is I'll get them to go through the remaining tasks and pull out one to a maximum of three things that they wanna do that week that are truly gonna drive their business forward.
And it's amazing. It's not always what you think. People are like, right, it's time to hire that person. I've been putting it off. And then we go through how to actually set it up in your calendar so that you'll actually do it, and then how to get it done consistently. And that's where we get into the focus, the next stage of the focus process.
Joe Casabona: Cool. Okay. So here, I suspect, is where your part of where your program could be really helpful. Right? Because I know for me, left to my own devices, I'd be like, Well, it's really important for me to post short-form videos on LinkedIn because I read an article last week saying you should do that, right?
Skye Waterson: Yep. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: So, like, is do do you or, or is there a framework to offer guidance for what's, like, actually important?
Skye Waterson: Yes. Yeah. If you do the first part, in the thing that I sent you, there's an option to do the second part. I actually do let people do a little audit. I shouldn't really, but I love fixing this problem because it's like so I shouldn't send them a video, but I like it because I wanna help you because the thing is that it it is interesting what is your true 80/20 because even the way you say to me like, like, I heard that I should be doing this. You know, I'd be like, okay. Well, first we need to do is what is your data? Like, what is the thing that's truly making you money? Is it that? Or is it, you know, for me, it used to be blogs, you know, what is the thing that's truly growing your audience? How can we grow that rather than going to a new space, especially with things like lead generation?
And this is where the ADHD business combo becomes really interesting. It's like you really wanna hit one thing, focus on it, grow it, and then automate it out of your life before you go and pick something else.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Love that. Also, you gave me a really good opening here. So, I will say automation is, like, the thing that I do really well. So if y'all wanna get my automation templates, you can go to casabona.org/join. It'll all be in the show notes, including Skye's Instagram to get. The first part of your framework. Is that what….
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The first part of your system. Yeah. And thenthe link to do the second part.
So, yeah, it's and then I think the next question people often ask me is, okay, cool. That's great, Skye. But, like, I'm not gonna do this thing. Like, I already know what I need to do, and I refuse to do it. What are you gonna do about that?
And the answer is something very simple that usually works within about two weeks. So one of the biggest things I'd say for people who now know what's important but they don't wanna do it because it's boring or it's confusing or the last time they did it someone yelled at them, that happens all the time, is we go through and we we step into focus.
And the first thing you wanna do is actually give yourself a reward for starting that activity, which is very it seems, really strange, but it's actually based on neuroscience and that, the deficit, the dopamine deficit, transfer theory that I was talking about before.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. Right? Like, you know, again, we're training a dog right now, and the person helping us is, like, every time he does something well, every single time he listens, give him a treat. And the same thing, our youngest struggled, still is maybe struggling a little bit with potty training.
Skye Waterson: Mhmm.
Joe Casabona: We give her M&M's every time she goes on the potty. Right? Like…
Skye Waterson: Yeah. and for us, it's yeah. It's like every time we sit at the desk with the intention of working on this task, we get a reward. So we don't just get it at the end. Our brain doesn't really notice that it's happening at the end, and we just kind of ignore it because we're adults. We want, we'll still do something nice at the end, but just the break is the reward.
And so what we wanna do at the beginning is we wanna say, like, okay, what can we eat? What can we taste? Like, sit down at your computer and read an article and listen to some music, and then let's write out the list of tasks, you know, on a little piece of paper that you're gonna get done during this period of time, like, break it down. Then you're, you know, kind of stepping into focus rather than just white knuckling yourself into focus, which never works unless the deadline is imminent, and you wanna risk burnout.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I really like that because it's almost on top of, like, rewarding yourself for starting, it almost it sounds like it helps you switch context a little bit too. Like, you sit down, you do this, and you're like, okay. I am in this context.
Now, I wanna go back for a second because I talked about my ridiculous AI automation where I, like, word vomit, and then it makes tasks in Todoist. Do you recommend, at least for folks with ADHD, that they actually write it down on a piece of paper by hand, or, like, is it, like, whatever works for them? I don't wanna step on that point if it's, like, important.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Yeah. No. It's a good it's a good question. I say whatever works for you. So, one of the things I know is that a lot of people with ADHD have processing issues of some kind. Some of you, this might be the first time you know that, but you're welcome. And so if you're the kind of person who's like, I have to write it down, you probably do have to write it down. So please write it down.
If you're the kind of person who's like, if it's on the computer, I totally get it. I can work with it. No worries at all. Let's use the computer.
Joe Casabona: Cool. Good to know. I feel like I go back and forth. I also have, like, a vast fountain pen collection, so I love writing stuff down. Writing while I'm driving to daycare, though, is probably not advisable.
Okay. Cool. So we've now entered the calendar focus part, right?
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Yeah. So we're getting to a point now. So we're basically what we've moved through and, you know, there are a few other things we talk about, decision making, things like that. We've moved through focus. We're now into, like, getting your time back. So the first thing we do to get your time back is stop you from procrastinating for hours and hours and not doing the thing. Like, that's number one. We save a lot of time doing that.
And then from there, we're moving into, okay, you're a business owner. So at this point, if you're focusing and you're doing the thing, you should feel a little bit more confident about the idea of your team. We probably do want you to hire someone in the admin space. That's a huge benefit if you're somebody who has this unconventional kind of brain.
And so, but it's important to know how. Like, I talk to so many people and they're like, nope. I did it once, and it was the worst thin,g and it stressed me out. I'm never doing it again. And it turns out that they, like, hired somebody that they barely knew who was recommended and they never checked and they didn't do test projects and they didn't you know, there's a whole bunch of there's a system to hiring, leading, and giving tasks to people that has to be as neurodiverse ADHD friendly as doing the tasks themselves.
A lot of people, when they realize that, they're like, oh, no. I thought I was done. Now, there's a whole other level. Welcome to business ownership. And so we go through that.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I think that's really, really important, and I was lucky to have somebody to, like, guide me through that because I would have done you know, my VA is in the Philippines. She's been with me for, like, six, five years, I guess, at this point. And, like, if she left me, I, like, constantly make sure I'm, like, paying her like a proper living wage. And because if she left me, I don't like things would crumble. Like like, this show gets published because of her. And so, but, like, if I had known to do the test project or, like, for her, it's like I record myself doing the task and then, you know, like, delegating properly, I would have gotten I would have let her go, like, way sooner.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Definitely. Would you do, you have systems and process docs so that if she did leave, you know, what she, someone else could take over the task?
Joe Casabona: Yeah. So here's the wonderful part of the thing that, like, I record the video, I have her transcribe it, and then write out the steps, and then that becomes the handbook. Right? So, yeah. So Yeah. Yeah. I do have that.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. I have that buy-back-your-time sort of process, but I will say I work with a lot of people and myself as well who refuse to do the task and record it because they're too ADHD. And so if you're that person, just jump on like a chatGPT, hit audio record, talk to it, get it to break down, like, the different systems for you. You'd be surprised. Give it to your person, get them to use that, and then have a meeting where you talk about it and record the meeting.
And so there are other ways. So one of the things we look at is, like, how to do an SOP when you never ever wanna think about the task again for more than, like, five minutes, which is a real thing.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Yeah. Seriously, like, when I, if she's, like, on vacation or I'm late getting an episode and I have to publish the episode, I always miss, like, three steps. I'm just like, what am I doing? This is why I don't do it anymore.
Okay. You mentioned Buy Back Your Time. Is that the Dan Martell book?
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Okay. Yeah. So his system of, like, you know, obviously, his system of getting time back, I think, is quite helpful. He talks about having ADHD as well, but he does talk about recording his videos. And Dan Martel is awesome, but I could never figure out how to record my videos, so I adjusted it. I'm sorry, Dan.
Joe Casabona: No. This is good to know. That is, Nathan Barry sent me that book.
Skye Waterson: Mhmm. Oh, yeah.
Joe Casabona: And I have not read it, and I'm, perhaps, I should.
Skye Waterson: It's a pretty good book. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: Nice. Nice. I got really selective about business books because, like, I just read, like, too many terrible ones in a row.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Yeah. It is odd.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Have you heard of Getting Things Done? Have you read The Checklist Manifesto? Yes. We've all read The Checklist at this point.
Skye Waterson: It's very, like, graphic at the beginning. Somebody sent it to me, and I was like, I did not know this was about doctors, and I haven't been squeamish.
Joe Casabona: Me neither. That's so funny because my wife mentioned him to me, and I'm like, How do you know this guy? And she's like, he wrote a book about being a doctor and, like, doctor processes. And I'm like, oh, dang.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. These days, I mostly read primary academic articles. I'm just that nerdy.
Joe Casabona: Okay. So, delegating, creating SOPs, and getting your time back.
Skye Waterson: Mhmm.Yeah.
Joe Casabona: What's next here? Or what, yeah.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Well, the next thing it gets kind of cool. So at this point, you are focusing. And the thing I, you know, I love about these systems, the reason I built them like this is it's not a one-stop shop. Like, people complain to me. They're like, Skye, it's been a year, and you're in my head. Like, once you build these systems, they will work all the time. So you'll feel, you know, more focused consistently. You'll get your time back consistently.
And then from there, we wanna grow consistent revenue because we're running a business. And so, you know, that's where time blindness and dopamine really start to come in because the things that can really affect you at this point is you don't have a good handle on the overall visual of your business and you go and, like, self sabotage and golf on a shiny thing.
So this is the point where I really tell people, hey, you need to not let your business be your source of dopamine. Up until this point, it's been a massive source of dopamine for you, the sales, the whole thing. This is a good time to go get a hobby, find something else that, you know, it can be exciting. It could be really intense, but it's time for us to, like, find a dopamine support and start putting it into your calendar so that you have the energy day to day, and it doesn't matter if your business is just doing the same thing.
Joe Casabona: That might I'm approaching 500 episodes of this show, and that might be my favorite advice ever because, for, like, ten years now, because, again, I came from the web development space, and a lot of us were self-taught. And I would hear a lot of, oh, I don't have a lot of hobbies. My job is my hobby. Or, like, I just like, oh, I just I like doing this, so I keep doing this. And I'm like, surely, you have other interests. I play the drums. I watch the Yankees. I smoke cigars like I have many hobbies. And so, like, I really, I think this is so important. Like out like the dopamine hit, yes, but, like, also just getting other perspectives from other things. Like, I think having a hobby is so important.
Skye Waterson: There's a time to, like, lock in, you know, and when you're building, like, it's a good time to lock in, but it's good to know when to, like, when to add to your repertoire of things, you know, when to when to put down the business book just for a minute and do something else.
And it's just, you know, I've seen it so many times. People will start and say, I have to build a second business now. It's like, is your first business at a million? Well, maybe just keep building this business, you know, like, let's just keep going. And so, you know, it's because we often thrive on stress, and that's totally fine. That's part of our ADHD. It's one of the things that makes us great at, you know, entrepreneurship, but when your business is good, then you can actually come in and cause stress.
Joe Casabona: Mhmm. Really, really smart. Yeah. Really smart. I like that a lot.
I'll also just say, like, maybe I got lucky and maybe this was, like, crystallized for me, like, in college, is I was really, like, racking my brain on a problem for, like, hours. And my friend's like, Joey, anybody who met me before 2009 calls me Joey. So they're like, Joey, just like kinda like the coffee shop, they're doing, like, an acoustic singer thing. Why don't you just come and, like, get your mind off of this? And, like, I solved the problem, like, ten minutes into the set. Like, literally, like like in the Facebook movie, The Social Network, like, I wrote it down on the back of a napkin. So it's like, let yourself turn off a little bit, too, I think.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. It's okay. Especially, you know, we combine that with, you know, understanding your business metrics, getting a good understanding of your data, and I'm, you know, I'm not a math person, so I say this as a non-math person. And that sort of thing, those two things combined, is so nice. You automate, and feel so good. Yeah. That's where we want you to get to.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. 100%. Now I know that we are we've been talking for a bit. I'm not sure how many more steps are in this process.
Skye Waterson: That’s it. We’re good.
Joe Casabona: Oh. Fantastic.
Skye Waterson: This is Like I said, this is specific steps, and we go deep. We're not…
Joe Casabona: Love it.
Okay. So we've laid out the system. Tell us a little bit about the impact. Like, what, like, what changes have you seen? What changes have your clients seen? Because I feel like this is like, the way that you're framing everything is, I feel, legitimately different from what I've heard a lot of. Right? And so, like, I'd love to hear the success stories.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Gosh. I love that question. I think the biggest success stories is always from people who are like, I am now present for my family and I don't want to fire everybody every second Tuesday, but don't know how to hire anybody.
And I feel confident, you know, a lot of the time. So I've had clients, you know, I've got a client, you know, sometimes people wanna share and sometimes they don't. So I appreciate both of them. But, you know, I’'ve had people like, Simon Mundy who works for the BBC and now runs his own business as well.
I've had Lisa Ballard who works for Google and sales, and, you know, I've had lots of cool people, career coaches, roofers, tattoo artists, like so many people across the world, and really it has been just that feeling of, I'm okay. Like, I'm doing good, and I'm going to keep doing good, and it doesn't have to feel painful, and it can feel good and right for my brain. A lot of people are like, oh, I think I was kinda trying to do that the whole time. I didn't even realize. And I can make money, and I can have a family, and, like, be present. And, for me, that's just makes it all worth it.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. That's amazing. I can really see, like, roofers or people who have, like, a hard skill or, like I mean, even, like, the self-taught web developer. Right? Like we started doing something because we were good at a thing, and then kinda fell into a business.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. And then we're like, gotta make money. Gotta figure it out.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Right.
Skye Waterson: Yeah.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. So that's amazing. And I think, like you said, like, kind of, like, labeling it is really like, the first time my therapist said it sounds like you're overstimulated, I had never heard that term before. I didn't watch I didn't watch Bluey enough with my kids, I think, because they talk about it there. But, like, I it it, like, was really just knowing it had a name was, like, a game changer to me. So, li Just, like, knowing it's half the battle to quote.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And once you know it, it gets in your brain, it sticks with you, and you can't unlearn it. Sorry, not sorry.
Joe Casabona: Okay. So you've already given us the first step, so I feel like this is really contrived because people are gonna DM you on Instagram, the word streamlined. But for solopreneurs listening who feel overwhelmed, what's their first step?
Skye Waterson: Yeah. So you can find me on [unconventionalorganization.com]. You can find me at Instagram Uncommutual Organization, and I will message you and, yes, it is me, and that is with an s, because I didn't realize I'd be working with a bunch of people from the US when I started this business.
And, you can also find me at the ADHD skills lab. We talk about strategies. We talk about entrepreneurs' experiences. We go into the research, and you might see Joe there, you know, in the near future as well.
Joe Casabona: Hey. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks for actually, thanks for mentioning that. It's with an s because I totally would have found the wrong one.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. I know. I think about that sometimes. It keeps me up at night. How many people are looking for my unconventional organization with a z?
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Can you grab it? Is there is or does somebody who already has it?
Skye Waterson: That's a great question. I am gonna go do that right now. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Good thing we're not live streaming. Right? This is the… best it could be both. Everything that Skye just mentioned will be in the show notes. I wanna do something, that actually AI recommended while I was putting together this outline that I think is interesting, because I like the quick hits idea, and I usually don't do it. But let's just do it really quickly. Right? What is your favorite task manager?
Skye Waterson: Oh, that's a great question. I think right now it's Notion. Like, I've been through so many. I'm liking Notion. But I will say for the record, it's because my team likes Notion, and they make it pretty, and then I use it. So That.
Joe Casabona: That's, like, so clutch for Notion, I think. Like, I didn't use Notion until my friend Kat, who's really good at Notion, invited me to one. And I was like, oh, it could look like this and not just like what like a what's happened here sort of thing?
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Pretty much.
Joe Casabona: Cool. And then for okay. So the recommended question here is, go to tool for time management? So what's the go-to tool for time management? And I'm gonna follow on with, do you do you time track? Because I'm really interested in that.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. That is a great question. So the go-to tool for time management, honestly, I'm gonna go old school. I think having, like, any form of external clocks in the house, like, just go nuts, find pretty ones, find visual timers, externalize your time in multiple different ways, it's gonna help. I don't use timers. I literally have one on my desk right here, and I don't use it, because I am a real big fan of natural timers. So I'll use things like cups of tea and how long it takes to use the microwave, and I sort of build out a system based on that.
Joe Casabona: Cool. I like that a lot. Also, a big fan of clocks. I don't know if it's in frame over here, but I have, like, a it's a record cut. I can see that. Walt Disney.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: Really cool. It was like a so outside Philly, they call Secret Santa Pollyanna. They're the only place I've heard that calls it that. So this is a Pollyanna gift from my wife's cousin, which is really nice.
Skye Waterson: Nice.
Joe Casabona: Cool. Alright. And then I guess the last question here, I'm not gonna ask this last question here. But, what is your what's your favorite use of AI? I'm, like, really hesitant to ask that because I've been AI hesitant, but also, it's just like there are so many use cases lately as it's gotten smarter. So…
Skye Waterson: Yeah. AI is really interesting. I am not anti AI. I'm anti getting lost in AI. Well, let AI take over your life.
I would say I'm still a very solid ChatGPT. So, like, if I have an email or something that I just mentally cannot comprehend, I will throw it into ChatGPT, especially if I'm in, like, a low executive functioning part of the day and say, like, this is kinda what I wanna say. Write me something. And I have actually gone to the trouble at some point of building out. Like, these are kind of what I write generally, so you have a sense of it. So usually I do that.
Occasionally, I will throw something into ChatGPT if it's really long and say like, what is this person asking me? Because, and then I'll reread it like. so it's just like sometimes I just use it as like an extra little bump for executive functioning when I'm feeling tired in the afternoon.
Joe Casabona: I really, I really like that. What is this person asking me is so perfect because sometimes it's long and you can't really tell. And it's like I don't wanna miss something. Yeah. Right. It's almost like you know how you watch a movie and then you watch it again and you notice all these things because you know how it ends, so you're, like, kind of focused on. It's almost like that, right? What is this person asking me? They're asking me this? Okay. Now I can read it and actually understand the whole thing.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Yeah. So that's usually my go-to.
Joe Casabona: Awesome. Well, Skye Waterson, thank you so much for joining us today. This has sincerely been one of my favorite episodes. It's just been so great.
Skye Waterson: I'm so glad. It's been great to be here.
Joe Casabona: Yes. And thank you for listening. And until next time, I hope you find some space in your week.