Joe Casabona: I've spent the last few years trying to help as many solopreneurs as possible save time in their business, specifically 25 hours per month. That's what I was able to do for myself. And over those years, I have developed a method, a system, a framework, if you will, to help people with that.
Well, over the last year or so, I have been developing my signature framework with the fantastic Charlotte Crowther, and we are going to walk through it today, from how she came up with the concepts and the visuals and the wording and what she needed from me. If you missed me walking through this framework, you can check out last week's episode in your feed, wherever you listen to podcasts, but let's bring in Charlotte to talk about this. Hey Charlotte, how are you?
Charlotte Crowther: Hi, Joe. Very well, thank you. How are you?
Joe Casabona: I am fantastic. I am so excited about this. This has been in the making for a while, right? The last time we got on this show, we were at Kit Studios and so it's been, it's been a while and I'm really excited how this— so I should say after that episode, I decided I needed to hire you because I had no idea how to talk about what I do from a high level. Right? I'm a, I'm very much like an implementation/features guy.
So I was really excited to hire you, and it's been a really good exercise for me. I told people like, just the questions you asked me were worth the price of admission because these are things that I hadn't really thought about. Right. And so I'm really excited to dig into this. So I hate the who are you and what do you do question, and I'm definitely gonna link that interview from Kit Studios in the show notes. But I do wanna talk about your process, and maybe we should reiterate why a signature framework is important.
Charlotte Crowther: Sure. Well, thanks, Joe. I'm Charlotte, Charlotte Crowther, and I founded a company called Signature Framework in 2020. So it's been coming up to 6 years now, end of 6 years. And I work with experts like you who are so good at what they do, it takes them a long time to explain it in a succinct, simple, compelling way. And moreover, you know, you're so good at what you do, but how do you, how do you package your expertise into something that people can buy as a repeatable outcome versus your hours? So you shift from being this glorified expert to someone they can rely on for repeatable outcomes and have a proprietary methodology that only they can get with you and that you can share online in your marketing, on your sales pages, in your products.
And I got into that because I was in that, like, moment myself as an expert when I was working as a coach. My zone of genius, actually, my first career was as a professional artist. I did a lot of conceptual art. So it's funny how I've kind of come full circle to what I do today and helping experts conceptualize visually what they do in a really clear, simple way.
And I remember when we, when we connected at the KITS conference a couple of years ago, and we were having dinner. It's a Sunday night right before the Lab Offline, and Chanel was there, Austin. I remember we were like just, just catching up, and then at the end, by the end of our conversation, you're like, do you want to do a podcast? Let's record it like in 2 days' time. I'm like, sure. But I think that's, that's the thing, right? Explained a little bit about what I did, and you were immediately intrigued and wanted to know more. And, and then we just, you know, had the next conversation. And I think that's what makes signature frameworks so, so powerful.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, absolutely. And it's like, it's funny because, like, I'm a teacher, right? Like, I taught in the classroom for a decade plus, right? And so I'm really good at teaching concepts. And people will tell me, my analogies- like our friend Justin Moore constantly tells me how good my analogies are. But like, it's kind of like trying to read the label from inside the bottle, right? Like I am inside my business and I have like that burden of knowledge of like everything, right?
And this is all experts, right? Not just me. We have that burden of knowledge. It's like we know everything about the business. And so it's really hard sometimes to distill. What is the important thing to communicate to somebody right on the front end? And me telling you, like, I'm going to build this amazing system with these like, crazy Rube Goldberg machine automations sounds overwhelming, but I'm going to help you get out of your own way and start taking things off of your plate. That's relief. That's like, oh great. I feel like I do too much and I'm overwhelmed.
Charlotte Crowther: That's it, right? You can do so much, but people can't see it. Have something concrete to ground it into. It's like it becomes another one of so many things that are possibilities. And with social media these days and AI, you're just bombarded with stuff, and you just get lost in the weeds. So having something really clear, concrete, with a language system as well as a visual system that speaks to your expert system is just a really clear way to communicate and stand out in today's noisy world.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, absolutely. And so I think it's probably good to bring up the visual. This is not something I often do on the podcast, but if you do want to see what we're talking about, this episode is on YouTube. Otherwise, I will have a link to the visuals in the show notes. So if you want to like, click the link and bring up the signature framework, this is what you came up with. And again, I did walk through it last week and we'll kind of walk through it together. But what I wanna know, first of all, my favorite part is like these icons are hand-drawn, right? Is that what you told me?
Charlotte Crowther: That's right. That's right. They are. Yep.
Joe Casabona: So I love that because I'm very much like a, I'm not an AI is bad guy because I use it every day, but like the human touches of the hand-drawn icons just like means a ton to me. I love that part. But I thought that we would bring this up while we talked about it, because I want to ask you 2 potentially vulnerable questions for me, which is: what was easy about coming up with my signature framework? We're going to do like a compliment sandwich here, because I'm going to ask you the other side of that coin later. So like, what was easy about coming up with this framework for me?
Charlotte Crowther: What was easy was you need your stuff. Now, whether that stuff was a bit scrambled and not linear and clearly organized and sequenced, sure, I mean, that's why we were working together. But, you know, I work with experts who've written books on their methodology, and they're still not clear. So just to be clear, like, you know, it's a spectrum and like the level of depth of clarity is amazingly deep, surprisingly deep. So the fact that you knew your stuff meant you could say yes or no when we had conversations.
And then we knew what we had to somehow communicate, although we didn't quite have the words or the order for it. But then we could kind of sort of brush up against that, so to speak, and go, okay, well, is it option A? Is it option B? And sort of narrow down from there.
But it was a layering process. So this is, this is right at the beginning. I remember after we had that podcast conversation, you're like, okay, got it. And you're like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna map it out. And so this was your, this was your initial framework, right?
Joe Casabona: This I did on the plane coming home from Craft and Commerce, right? So like—
Charlotte Crowther: That's right, exactly.
Joe Casabona: So like, I drew this out on my iPad, and I want to make this clear that this was only based on… This was based strictly on our conversation and me asking ChatGPT to go through your steps so that I could try to do this myself. And I knew, as soon as it's like the fastest way to figure out if you should hire somebody is to try to do it yourself. And that's exactly where I was, what I was feeling like after this.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah. Yeah. And you also look, you had, like, you had this as well. You're thinking about your ecosystem. So, and I remember like you were really excited because you had a lot of clarity from the process, right? But at the same time you were like, I'm stumped.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. It's, and I didn't really know. I knew only a little bit at that point of what I didn't know. Right? Like, to make it a baseball analogy, like, I finally learned how to hit a baseball off a tee, but I knew that I wasn't hitting a home run.
Charlotte Crowther: Okay, I like that analogy. That's nice, that's nice. Yeah, and you know what's interesting is you do have, like, mindset, organize in there, which has remained in your framework, but the other ones, you know, not so much, and they've been sort of resequenced. But so that's where we started. And then we, you know, took quite a bit of time analyzing all the steps. And I just share this because, you know, here we are: V3, V4, V5. And, and often with a framework, you have to sort of unpack it to repack it. So if you expand, sort of diverge and converge.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah.
Joe Casabona: It's like a Rubik's Cube, right?
Charlotte Crowther: So we did that a number of times. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: Like when you solve a Rubik's Cube, it looks worse before it starts to look better. Right. But you're solving it along the way. Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: That's it. That's it. And a lot of this also was iterated when we had feedback from your colleagues and your inner circles and your wider community who were very generous in sharing their thoughts and what, what resonated and what worked for them. But yeah, we did 12 versions. Before we got to the final version. And that is you and me on this like no tomorrow, like on it, on it, on it, on it, on it. Yeah.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: So I just share that to give you a sense of the volume of work and codification required in the process. And you asked sort of what my process is. So that is like the codify phase where we've got all these concepts and we're figuring out what's the simplest, fastest way that you help people get from A to B, i.e., to like achieve that goal of transformation. And then we are sort of categorizing and sequencing that. So it's really clear, really distilled.
And then we can sort of start creating a visual around it. So Yeah, that was the, the, the easy bit, so to speak. We knew what we were shooting for, but it did take a number of angles looking at it to really kind of get down to those final words and sequences.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, part of it I would say is like, I don't really— when I came to you, I don't really think I knew what I wanted. Right? I wanna give a shout-out, maybe we will eventually get to this too, but to Hollie Arnett, my brand person, who I believe helped with the visuals.
Charlotte Crowther: That's right, she did.
Joe Casabona: She's the best. I get so many compliments on this hat and this, and this icon, just like so good. But, you know, she asked me like, do I want a personal brand or do I want a brand for, you know, my business name? And we ultimately went with a personal brand. And I feel like I got away from that. I'm getting back to that. Like, it's like, I feel like it's a thing I think about every year.
But when I came to you, I was between: do I wanna serve solopreneurs? Do I wanna keep doing podcast stuff or just content? And ultimately I decided, like, while it felt and still feels more intangible, feeling more tangible thanks to the Signature Framework, I wanna help people with more than just their content. And so like, this is kind of where we settled on. So now, I want to ask you this question: What was the hard part about working with me?
Charlotte Crowther: I think there was that bit at the beginning where you were like, who am I serving? What do I want to dub down on? And I'm glad we're touching base on this actually, because a lot of people say, when's the right time to start working with you, Charlotte? Do I need to have everything sorted out? And I think the answer is like yes and no. So, as in, it depends. Like for some people, like I believe in your case, the questions I asked force you to think through those things more deeply and accelerate that process versus sort of spending another year meandering, you know, and you knew you wanted to sort of get to the next stage of your business and make that decision.
And so we had our initial session, and then there were a few months that passed where you explored further the direction, and then we sort of picked up from there, and sort of dug down. So I think it can really work for people, particularly when you do have that wealth of experience, and you've worked with numerous people. It's just more choosing which bit of your service you wanted to be known for and specialize in. So I mean, I don't think it was hard. I think it was just more— That was important for setting the direction of the framework and the codification and the level of narrowness or breadth that we sort of go to.
I think what was also really interesting about your framework was we were very mindful about who it was for. And so actually, we can come to your framework here. So it was for the solopreneur. And so mindset was actually a very important pillar because if they didn't fully take on the importance of systematizing what they do, and it doesn't need to be some mega big system, but if they didn't really reflect on their limiting beliefs and mindsets, help them achieve their goals. And that is like at the life and business level. So that's another thing. It wasn't just the business goals. It was at a life and business level. So they could really feel the pain of not systematizing their solopreneur business and sort of streamlining it. They would never, never sort of, then take on tha. The mindset required to be able to get onto the next phase of like organize.
So a lot of people would have started here, at Organize. But we really took that time to think about who you're serving and what would be most helpful to them so that they get the outcome more quickly. So, you know, they could have started here, but then they would have dropped off. By including these steps, it's a way for you to get to know them so you can really make sure they're building the right systems that they need to achieve their life and business goals. We could then, you know, get into the weeds of organizing and systematizing.
And then I think another really interesting thing you'll notice here, there's a dash. So a solopreneur needs to automate the system they develop and/or delegate it. And so I think again, you were sort of very mindful about including that option so that, you know, they can already make it work for them. It's not intimidating.
And that was another thing, you know, I worked completely with Hollie, like the hand-drawn elements. So it was friendly, it was welcoming. It wasn't like, we're going to systematize everything. It's like, what is a simple but clear way for you to think about creating a system for your business so you can enjoy your business and have the freedom it could enable you if you let yourself?
And if you like take the time to kind of go through these steps that actually now look very clear, and very simple, but 12 versions later, a number of months into the work, you know, it took us, but I think that's, that's what's really exciting, you know? And hopefully that was a helpful process for you too, that those steps.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, it absolutely is. Right. And like, I had a coaching call today as we record this, where I was asking the woman I was coaching, like, do you have kids? Right. Do you have a partner? And that feels really personal. Like, I hesitated to even ask those questions, but understanding what you're trying to do with your life, right? Like, she's a recent empty nester. She has a college kid. We livestreamed this, so I'm not, like, airing any laundry. Understanding that is really important, right? Because the advice that I gave her would have been so different from the advice that I would give someone who looks maybe more like me, who has 3 small kids, who are just now in school full-time, where you feel like you've found a lot of time, but your day still has kind of like a hard stop at 3:00 PM, right? Like when school ends.
So understanding those things about your life, because the other thing I'm sure I communicated to you was like, I don't wanna help solopreneurs build a hustle business. You know, most of the people I serve quit their jobs to be more free. And the people I help have not actualized that yet. They feel, again, this person that I coached today said, I feel like I'm an employee in my own business. And so that's what I want to help people with. And if we just jump right to the organize phase, I wouldn't have any of that context. And so goals and mindset are set the goals so that we know what we're working towards.
And then now let's tackle your limiting beliefs. And let's remember that if you keep this mindset, you will achieve those goals based on what we build in the next phases.
Charlotte Crowther: I think that's the thing, you know, with systems, you know, one thing is having the mindset and adopting it to go to the time and effort to create a system. But another thing is you have to sustain it. And so if you don't have those goals and mindset in place, you're not gonna do the actions, uh, take the actions or apply those behaviors that will help you maintain it, you know. Otherwise, you're just doing it and then forgetting about it, you know. So that, that's such a key part that, um, I think isn't talked about enough in terms of building systems, you know. So you can get so busy with, you know, what's the output, what's the output, what's the speed that I, you know, have saved. Um, and that's fine, but if it only works once or twice, you know, it doesn't— you don't quite get the ROI and all the time and effort.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: Um, built into the system. So I love how you take that care and time with your clients, and you help them identify those elements so they really take that on in a meaningful way.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, thank you. And I mean, to your point, right, is the framework came out of the way I work, right, and just my approach, and we've put the appropriate labels on it and put it in the right order. What I didn't realize until we were pretty far into this process is like how many wins I get people from just the organized part. Like, when do you work best? Let's protect those hours has like yielded great results for my clients. Wow. 'Cause they're like, oh no, I just like, oh, I schedule meetings whenever is convenient for everybody else. And I'm like, cool, live your life, protect your time. So like, that's also been like just super helpful for me, like putting these pillars in the right order. And, and understanding that too, which I want you to make your point, but I do wanna get to that cuz I would've never thought about that part.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah. I remember when we were sort of digging into that pillar of your work, and you were like, wait a second, I do this all the time. I have an audit. I have a whole, like, 15 questions. Here's my Google Doc. Here's the Excel, here's the Notion template version. And I'm like, well, why didn't you show that to me earlier? And you were like, oh, well, I didn't think about it. And I was like, okay, well, let's just download that.
But that's such a good example where we have all these amazing concepts, but because they're not clear or like connected, you know, it's like a piece of gold in the sea. It's just like drifting around, and not utilized. And so I remember that by really sort of taking the time to bring it in, it actually became a core part of your system, right? You created an offer out of it as, like a first step in your offer stack where you do this organized audit. And it's a great way of building quick wins for your people. It's a light lift. It's a way for you to start working together. It's a part of your system.
So you're building trust with your clients. You're giving them an easy first step into your world. It's something you've already built out assets around. You're just, you know, bringing in these icons and sort of terminology to make it coherent and cohesive. So, you know, that facelift just, just, yeah, it's just a really good example of how Signature Framework can help you scale your business and scale your services and make them more repeatable and standardizable, which saves you time, which gives your clients better results, and is a part of, like, your ecosystem of thought leadership, of products.
So yeah, I love that win that happened. You know, already during the process of working together, I know you've built on that and built landing pages and got testimonials just on like that initial like audit product that you offer people.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, I really want to, like dig into this because one of the things I forget now- I think I said at the top of the show- but like one of the things I shared with a lot of people was like, like, just talking to you and asking you questions and getting your point of view helped me. Like, my business was in this messy middle, and I've been explaining it to a lot of people this way where it's like, this feels more intangible than what I've sold in the past, right? When I made websites, easy, right? Like, oh, you tell me the website you need, and I already have it in my head, right? And I can explain it to you, right? Podcast. Oh, you tell me your podcast, and I will tell you everything we need to do and what, like, what it looks like from A to B. Right. But with this, it's like, I save you time. I make you feel less overwhelmed. How? Right.
I don't really know until I dig into your business because I don't know how you work. And that's a really, I'm not just going to say like, use this Notion template and you'll save a bunch of hours. I really need to figure out when you work best and what your life situation is.
And so like the signature framework has like made what I offer more tangible. I've realized it throughout the whole process, but where I'm really seeing it work now is in the way I'm structuring my talks. So like I mentioned, I've been speaking a lot, and I've been introducing the framework. It's always the, I tell a story. And then I show the signature framework. So this'll always be the thing that I show right after I, you know, whatever story hooks them.
And then, and that's why we're talking about this today. I show this, and I say, now this is my framework for streamlining your systems, for getting you those 25 hours a month back. And then I circle the pillar where we're gonna focus on today, right? So, like, this is the important stuff. This is where we're going to dig in today. If you want to know more about this, we can talk after, but I'm giving, as we record this, I'm giving a talk this week where I'm actually stepping through every pillar of this framework because it's, it's more of a workshop.
And so I want them to state their goals, right? Like, what would you do with 25 hours a month back? And, you know, make a business answer if you want, but I want like something personal. Like someone told me, I would learn French. I would write my book. I would touch grass. Like, those are powerful things, right? And then, and then we'll walk through the rest, and we'll do the time, task, and tools audit, and we'll give them that priority list. So that's been really exciting for me because it turns something that feels very intangible to me into something tangible.
Charlotte Crowther: Thanks for sharing that, Joe. One, I'm just so, so pleased for you. As you say, it's like, how do you make something that isn't— that, you know, is in some ways abstract, although the final output will be like you have a system for your podcast. It's still, it's still intangible. Like, until you don't say how you do it, it's— and like how, and therefore why they should choose you over someone else because you're so thoughtful and describe these steps. It's like they just have to sort of believe you. Just go with blind faith that you'll do a great job, you know. So, but I think the fact that you have thought it through to the depth you have, I think, you know, people can say, you know, as you did, here's my methodology, here are like the 10 steps.
But because you've gone to the depth you have, you know, it's totally robust and solid. And you're not going to be— I mean, it could evolve a bit here and there as you use it, but the core of it, it's not going to change much. It's solid. But you might be adding things on because you're like, you know, I want to extend, you know, my service or business, but it's not going to change radically in the next 3 to 5 years. And that is a really key thing because it means you're not changing your business, and you can actually build something solid, and you can stress-test it and you can build systems within, like, for example, this audit product. You know, you can keep refining that Notion template, Google Doc template that you're using in the workshop this week, that you're using in your one-to-one audits, that you're using in your lead magnet. And so you save so much time and energy there and you can get like deeper insights that you can share when you are speaking or in your marketing content. And I think that's one of the things that really excites me, that people don't realize is that there's a benefit to doing this work.
And I've met so many people who have evolved their framework over the years and built a business around it, but it's not quite solid. They keep changing it, and it takes up a lot of attention, more than you imagine. And because you don't have that solid ground, then your business keeps changing too. How when we first met, like, you didn't commit to a direction, a position, a key customer. And so you were sort of, you know, in this, and now it's easy for people to invite you to speak on a podcast, at a summit, because they know what you do, they know what it looks like, they trust you, and they would be delighted for you to share that with their people. So there's all these, like, nuances of, like, trust building that come, that ability to sort of scale your business. And that's something that, you know, really comes after that visualization has happened, where you can really leverage your IP and use it, you know, firstly, you know, to trademark it so it's yours.
But of course, in your marketing, sales, and products, and the scale of your business. Like, I think when people see this, they just think I'm saying it, but it's, it's real. And I think that's why I like to give these examples so people can understand more tangibly what that really looks and feels like.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. You know, as you were talking, it made me think about like, I watch a lot of sitcoms. I love TV. And like the early episodes of any TV show are mostly exposition, right? Right? The writers have to take the time to get us to understand these characters and who they are and what their strengths are and what their flaws are in real life. And like, or in like midlife for a lot of them, probably, right? Or at least like 25 years in, right? I think some do it really, really well. Some are pretty obvious about it. Like, Brooklyn Nine-Nine is one that I think about, right? Because like the exposition was very obviously exposition, and it was like Terry Crews's character was telling Andre Braugher's character, the new captain of the precinct, about, like, tell me about the team, right? And so, like, just very obvious exposition, right?
And the reason I'm thinking about this is because if you have to change the entire cast of characters every season, you have to spend those first couple of episodes again doing exposition, which kind of resets. It doesn't let people get attached to characters or grow with them or see how they grow, right? Like, Jake Peralta in season 1 is very different from Jake Peralta in season 8, but like, they didn't need to explicitly state every time he grew because we knew where he was and where he ended up.
Charlotte Crowther: Mm-hmm.
Joe Casabona: And so like your signature framework kind of helps you not have to redo the exposition necessary in your business to like describe your business to somebody.
Charlotte Crowther: Exactly. And I think I really like your analogy of getting to know the character and sort of seeing it play out. And, you know, it's, it's well known, like, you know, people have to have a certain number of touchpoints before they get to know you. So if you're saying different messages, it's confusing for people and, you know, you can lose them easily. So by reinforcing your message, it becomes a part of you.
And I think what's exciting about Signature Framework is you become known for that ownable idea, you know, that signature IP. People are calling it different things, and they associate you with that. You know, do you have your streamlined solopreneur system set up? Have you spoken to Joe? Like, especially for solopreneurs, you know, that's especially for them, you know, and you become that go-to guy because of that.
I know you work with Justin Moore and use his budget restrict wheel a lot, and you're like, I want that for me, right? Yeah. Because he has it everywhere. I need to take a leaf out of his book and print it and put it on the back of my Zoom background. You know, it's just like omnipresent. And I think what's exciting is, you know, that is also the content, the structure of his book. And so it's almost like a preview of your book, of your IP, of your methodology, of how you work, what you offer people, and it becomes a brand identifier. And so that IP element is really important, and you know, sure, it seems obvious big businesses will have that.
But small businesses are powerful in that way too. And it's a way to own real estate in the world, become known for what you're doing, give yourself the opportunity to be big at what you do as well. And big is, you know, whatever that definition is for you. But I've worked with clients who now license the methodology because they can, because it has a name, has a signature set of languages and visuals, and people want it, people buy it, people have been white-labeling it. And so she is a solopreneur but doing big things. It can seem out of touch, out of reach for people, because a lot of people don't take the time to do this foundational work, so it doesn't seem like an option. And of course it is an option because you haven't done the work for it to be an option. But when you do have that in place, it really opens doors.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, I think there's a couple of things there. Like, one of the things that pushed me towards this was I was talking to Jay Klaus and he was like, I have— I don't really know how to recommend you. And I was like, as someone whose whole business his whole life has been based on referrals, like, that was like hard to hear, right?
My very first client ever was a referral. They were like, hey, you're good with computers; can you make websites? And I said no. And they're like, we'll pay you. And I was like, yes, right? And because— And I was like 14, all I had was time, right? Like $200, sure, absolutely. But because I made that website for our parish, other business owners in the parish were like, yeah, I also need a website. It's $2,000, we need websites, right? So like, So like, that really was like hard to hear. And I was like, all right, I need to be clear about what I do so that I'm recommendable.
And like, the fact that even though we finished the visuals, you know, like a few months ago, a few months before that, I was talking about this. And it's the reason why I've been speaking at 3 conferences in 5 weeks, right? Like, because people are saying, yes, what you're saying is important. You are helping people do this thing. I feel like we're coming out of the hustle bro fog that people have been in for the last 10 years, maybe. And so this has been super helpful. I do have a book outline based on this as well, because I've been like, I wrote my last book in 2020, 2021 is when it came out. And it's like, a web development book.
I haven't written a book about this new area of expertise, and nothing has ever really felt right. And I'm like, well, gosh, I have the sections now. Like I have, I have the chapters, right? I can still do implementation at some point. And so I'm really excited to, like dig into like after travel. I know like, November, December, January, like slow down for a lot of people. And I'm gonna start really digging into, like, you know, putting the words on the page. And I'm really excited about that.
Charlotte Crowther: That's very exciting, Joe. I'm super happy for you. And it's something that actually is another reason why a lot of people start working with me. They, they know they want to write a book, and it's a way for them to pre-outline it as well as figure out their business and how what, what is, you know, their proprietary methodology is and for what they do. It's like a natural way of building authority, sharing your thought leadership. And I think that's the other thing, like these days people buy into you and your ideas and how you think and how you help them think and make them think.
People remember you for the ahas, the insights that you gave them. And if they can then— if that also stacks up with a solid, robust framework behind it, it isn't just a great idea that floats, but it's a great idea that also has a whole, like, backend to it that helps you implement that idea. So it isn't just a great idea, but actually something you can put into practice. It's such a such a great way to build that trust and build connection with people in your work over time.
And, you know, just to also show the other slides that, you know, we produced for you, you have all the detail. And then you can, like, double-click on these things, and people can see, okay, so thinking about goals in these 3 time horizons. And you have a really clear prompt of what to consider, a really clear prompt around how to think about limiting beliefs and empowering mindsets.
And so, you know, as people get to know you and dig a little bit deeper, they're like, there's really like solid thinking and work behind each of these concepts. And there's, you know, secondary and tertiary frameworks as well. So yeah, I think that's something that's very exciting.
And I also wanted to share with you, this will be one of my recommendations for you to build out your framework is creating what I, what I call a visual manifesto of your signature thinking. So you sort of on your website share, share basically initially like the flawed approach that people take to what they want to achieve and the flawed thinking behind those actions that they take. And then you sort of present your framework as the new thinking, a new approach to this solution to get them out of the rut that they're in so they can achieve their goals. And you could present that in a really visual, compelling, clear, understandable way. So, you know, your thought leadership is really presented on your website. This example from Tamara Grominsky.
Joe Casabona: I was going to ask if that was our friend Tamara. She's—
Charlotte Crowther: That is our friend.
Joe Casabona: She's great.
Charlotte Crowther: She is. She is. And then, you know, another product that you can build out of your framework is an assessment. So that's her call to action here. And she's had over 1,000 responses in 5 months.
Joe Casabona: Wow.
Charlotte Crowther: And it's an amazing lead gen for her, but also a way to assess whether someone's a good member for her community.
And a lot of people, off the back of these assessments, obviously you're asking more questions; you're asking more deeply about each of those elements. So she has 30 leadership questions, and then they get this radar chart, and then they get these resources, which goes into the framework into more detail. So she's really giving them— here's Tamara— you're really giving people a lot of confidence in how you think and how you work. And she's had a lot of, you know, higher-quality people as a result have applied to be a part of her community.
And her assessment also gives her a really clear roadmap that she can develop in a bespoke way for each new member to get the most out of their community experience. And so there's, again, it's another really great way of how to scale your framework and use it in your products as well as part of your sales process and just, you know, enable your people to get brilliant results and keep working with you and keep building that relationship with you, which is just amazing.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. I love that. I'm definitely gonna do that. I had this question, right? Like, what's the next thing I should do for my framework? And I know that we're coming up on time, so I'm gonna take this, absolutely do that. I'm gonna have a lot of downtime over the next week where I will be writing from one of my favorite places, Disney World. I love bringing my laptop to Epcot, uh, when I'm not with my family, obviously. And, uh, just one of my favorite places to write. It's like so peaceful for me.
But I do wanna ask this, which is, you know, we've spent a lot of time working on this. I've spent my time describing it. Is there anything that I haven't said about my framework that you feel is an important descriptor or something important to highlight? Like, almost like, how would you describe my framework to another person, maybe?
Charlotte Crowther: I think there's something that really stands out for me, reflecting on our work together, is how much you have designed it for solopreneurs. Like, this is the go-to place for solopreneurs to create a system that works for them, that they can sustain, and that's simple and light, and they can, like, start small and sort of do more over time. And I think the organize section- like time, tasks, tools- that is like a huge, like if you get that, if you bring that in already, you're like on an upward trajectory. And then you double-click on systematize after that.
And you know what I like about it is you have like this analyze steps. You're not just jumping straight into, like, okay, let me just create a system about, I don't know, let me just grab that. No, you're like very thoughtful about, you know, what is going to give you like the best ROI and give, you know, on your time and in terms of like actual time saving too. And then you sort of have a really great structure for how you document it and then how you implement it.
And then over time, as and when it makes sense, I really love how you're so thoughtful about introducing automation and delegation. It's not like you have to go to that straight away, but it's something to consider. As part of the process. And then if it makes sense, of course, you incorporate it. And if not, like right now, it's something you can always consider at a later point.
So I think the— I hope you really get it out there so it becomes that kind of go-to place and resource. And you have— when you, when you do, like videos about it, when you do your workshops and talks about it, you, you make it really clear and understandable and widely available for people. So that they just know that you're the go-to person for that thing. And of course it's like a win-win, like you can help them, but also they help you sort of build a business around it and help them more, you know, as a result.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, that's, that's really key. And like, I think, um, you know, something that I really— because again, like I have like implementation brain most of the time— is like, what is a way for me to help people build the system without the automation and delegation? Right. I mean, like sometimes it's an easy jump, but today, again, just to give a really good example, I was on a coaching call, and they basically had no client acquisition funnel. And they're like, I don't know how I can put one in place without it adding a bunch of Time, right? And so I said, are you collecting testimonials? Right? Let's start there. Collect testimonials and publish them.
Now, now you're showing and telling, and just that first step will lead to more when you have time of being able to do case studies. And here's a simple way to collect them that's not going to add much to your time because you are delivering something.
And so, I mean, she thought that was a great idea. And, and so that's a system where down the line, I know how I can see how already how the automation would work in this instance. So yeah, I love that we, we don't serve that, but we, it is optional. It is optional when ready. Right. It's the optional upgrade. To the system that's already gonna save you time.
Charlotte Crowther: I think that's a really good example. And this is something we were like, tossing a bit when we were working together. Like, how niche do you go? Do you just like create a methodology for like, one key workflow that a lot of people want and need? And then you're like, I wanna be a little bit broader than that because, and this is a really interesting solopreneur thing, it's like you wanna do interesting work. You don't wanna just do the same thing every time. And that's a choice. Like, there's no wrong or right about that. But because you have a system, you're not— you are doing the same thing, but you're not literally like the same content each time. So you have something that you do a lot of, but also you have the option to sort of mix it up, add an element.
And, you know, one thing that I would recommend is that you, like that testimonial example, show how it works in the system and how you can add the automate and delegate element to it. So people kind of see it in practice, and how, with system like is sort of a phased thing, and then it really helps them understand it.
And also, you know, as part of that analysis phase, you realize that's a high ROI thing because it will allow you to spend less time doing marketing and sales and just build trust more quickly so people can kind of come in and you can build the business already. But that's the sort of, you know, those are sort of considerations that you go through with clients at that point. So like almost like a case study on that, I think it brings your system to life and helps people understand the thought and consideration and how and why that system is so robust and does work so well and how it applies in like, this scenario or another scenario, for example.
So I think you can still specialize or give really great concrete examples around how you use your systems. I can imagine that'd be, you know, a question for people because there isn't a specific example. You can share like a range of examples that are like popular and common and things that you would, you know, often recommend.
Joe Casabona: Yeah, that's another great idea that I'm going to absolutely implement here. So it's been like an extra helpful thing for me. The last thing I want to show you before we let people know how they can find you is I also updated my podcast artwork recently to include the icons and phrases. And like part of me was like, is this too much text? But I really don't think it is. I feel like the icons stand out, and then if people actually look, they'll see like what my framework looks like. I've gotten a bunch of compliments on this new artwork. It used to be like my face, so I don't know what that says about me, but lots of great compliments on this.
And again, just love hand-drawn icons. So thank you again. This has been— it really like— the reason I wanted you on the show is so we could talk about this, but also because I want people to see how helpful it's been for me. Like my friend said to me recently, he's like, people think we are overthinkers, but we actually think people are underthinking. Right. And so like, I feel like this is not something I was overthinking, right? Like, this was the appropriate amount of thinking I needed to do for this. And I want more people to do that.
Charlotte Crowther: I'm gonna just do a little reveal here, a little bit behind the scenes.
Joe Casabona: Okay.
Charlotte Crowther: Of how we developed the framework, because I haven't shared this with you, so I thought this could be a good moment.
Joe Casabona: Oh man.
Charlotte Crowther: Yes. So we brainstormed a bunch of different ways, and I came with some initial ideas, and you can see the essence of your framework here. And, you know, we love these like big icons and we're thinking about, you know, bringing them like right in at the top, but they were like too chunky, like too, it was like too It wasn't streamlined. That was like the keyword that we were sort of playing with.
Then we thought about, okay, do we use your favicon? But it didn't quite capture the essence because there's no sort of funnel in, funnel out. It's like, it's a process. It's also not a— it is a circular thing, but that wasn't like the main point to communicate sort of visually. You know, we explored like a flowchart sort of angle as well.
And thinking, thinking about this. So there were some initial ideas, and then we sort of doubled down on exploring these a bit more and thinking about, for example, the little shapes for each, like, of your components. And then we started putting text to them. And yeah, a little bit hectic again, not creating this sort of streamlined vibe. Sorry for the podcast people. You're gonna have to, you're gonna have to watch the video for this. This is like hard to, hard to describe. So like, definitely—
Joe Casabona: I will clip this part specifically too. Like, this is really good. Yeah. Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: Nice. I wanted this little surprise for you.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: We double-clicked on some of these concepts and started exploring them. But you know, it's, it's, you'd be surprised, like as much as with the codification work. It took us like 12 versions. You know, we, we had a number of rounds as well because like in the codification, until you like actually write it out and map it out, can you really see this works or not? So you can see us here playing with a few different options and like it almost like popping out, but it gets a bit sort of noisy. So we Went with more like the pillars of things, but it felt a bit blocky and a bit standard. It didn't feel sort of quirky enough, like also for a solo printer, like something like very personal to them. So we kept exploring. Here we are, round 5.
Yeah, and begun to find a groove, which is what you've seen here. And then it was a case of just really finessing, finessing this, you know, do we put the prompt below the line? Do we put the description above the line? And so until we sort of really drilled down into the different options, and then, of course, getting your icons developed. Holly does an amazing job of that. And yeah, and then sort of building out the final assets. Another key thing is having it with descriptions and without descriptions.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: So this you can have when you're speaking. And this you can have as like a lead magnet, for example. So it gives you like that flexibility. And then again, like this for your speaking, it's making it really clear and simple. So yeah.
And then one thing we tried a few different things for your infographics. But one thing that I would share with you is to launch it on social media. I imagine you're gonna be recording a podcast to sort of give the background when you launch it, so people can learn a little bit more. But yeah, I think that's an exciting step for you. I know you've sort of soft-launched it in the talks that you've been giving recently and the workshops.
Joe Casabona: Yeah.
Charlotte Crowther: But yeah, that's a little behind the scenes for you.
Joe Casabona: That is so cool. I can't help but think, cuz like one of the things I've been talking about a lot lately is like conscientious AI usage, and AI brain rot. And like, I think part of it is like we expect immediate, instantaneous results all the time, and great things take time. Like, you could look at this framework and be like, yeah, it makes perfect sense. Right. But like what you're not seeing is everything we just saw that went into like what I feel is like a perfect visualization of my framework. Right. So, like, I love that you shared this. I just wanna like reinforce that like great things take time, and it's the time you put into it that, that like yields the return on time investment, if that makes sense. Like, I love that. So thank you for sharing that.
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah, pleasure. I was excited to share it with you.
Joe Casabona: Yeah. Amazing. Yes. You're all gonna have to, if you're listening, you're gonna have to watch the video to see my big old grin as she's walking through the whole thing. So amazing.
Charlotte, thank you so much. Really glad that we got to do this. Now, if people want to work with you, where can they find you?
Charlotte Crowther: Yeah, thanks, Joe. signatureframework.com. That's me. You'll find my socials there, a bit more about me, how I work with people. Yeah, love to hear from you. Connect on LinkedIn, connect on Insta. I've got a YouTube channel at Signature Framework. So yeah, let's connect.
Joe Casabona: Awesome. I will link to that and everything we talked about in the show notes, in the description, wherever you are listening to this. Thank you all for listening. Charlotte, thanks again for joining us today.
Charlotte Crowther: My pleasure, Joe. Thanks for listening too. Catch you soon. I'd love to do a podcast in like a few months' time or 6 months, 12 months, whatever, just to hear how it's going actually, if you're up for it. That would be fun.
Joe Casabona: I'm so up for it. We'll, we'll get it on the books. You heard it here first, folks. So keep me accountable to that, if both Charlotte and people listening.
But until then, thank you so much. And until next time. I hope you find some space in your week.
